The Pandemic as a Catalyst for Leadership Growth with Glen Blair

“I have the confidence now...to be extremely immediate in my decision-making, as long as I map my decisions to our values.”- Glen Blair

How has the pandemic affected you and your organization?   Everyone has been touched in some way or another, and much of the impact has been negative.  It’s also had an interesting flip side - a more positive impact, in many cases.  Today’s guest credits the pandemic as a sort of catalyst that has elevated his skills and outlook in important ways. 

My guest is Glen Blair who is currently Senior Manager, Learning Design & Technology Operations at the Home Depot Canada - an organization with over 32,000 associates across the country.

Glen has a wealth of experience supporting and leading learning across several diverse industries, including healthcare, telecom and retail.  

In this episode of Talent Management Truths, you’ll discover:

🍏  How encountering resistance can lead to watershed moments

🍏  Which leadership skills grew the most as a result of Covid 

🍏  The impact of empowerment on engagement

About Glen Blair:  Glen has been in the learning and development field for over 25 years across the telecommunications, public health sector, financial and retail industries.  Glen is the thought leader for the learning design and operations functions at the Home Depot Canada, with a focus on the continuous evolution of people-centric, innovative technology solutions supporting over 30K associates nation-wide.

Links

• Glen Blair on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/glenblairlearningpro 

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Lisa: How has the pandemic affected you and your organization? Everyone has been touched in some way or another, and much of the impact has been negative. It's also had an interesting flip side in some cases, a more positive impact today's guest credits the pandemic as a. Catalyst that's elevated his skills and outlook in important ways.

My guest is Glenn Blair. He's currently senior manager of learning and development and technology operations at the home Depot, Canada, an organization with over 32,000 associates across the country. Glenn has a wealth of experience supporting and leading learning across several diverse industries, including healthcare telecom and retail.

It was so great to catch up with Glenn given he and I worked together briefly almost a decade ago. I know you'll enjoy hearing about how the pandemic, although difficult has shaped his leadership. Thanks for listening.

Hi, welcome back to talent management. Truce, I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell. And today I'm joined by my friend and former colleague Glenn Blair Glenn is currently the senior manager of learning and development and technology operations at the home Depot here in Canada. And Glen is truly a thought leader in his space.

He's got a tremendous background in e-learning and learning technology, and he leads a quite a large team currently. So, really looking forward to our conversation today. Thanks for joining me. 

[00:03:08] Glen: Oh, Lisa, thank you. And the checks in the mail, that was, that was a really nice, that's a really nice way to describe me. I appreciate it.

[00:03:14] Lisa: My pleasure, my pleasure. Well, it.

was the reason I asked you to come on the show. So, so, you know, really good to see you. And I think you know, people are going to be really interested in what you have to say today. So I thought we could kick off by having you share a little bit about how you got into this wonderful world of learning and talent management. 

[00:03:33] Glen: sure. Sure. And it's really honestly started a long time ago. As a young person, even in the age of the, the Dawn of Aquarius and the apple two E computer I was really fascinated by the technology, Steve jobs. I am not, but they had the scrubber board had these computers that were on big rolly carts.

There were two of them for the entire. And every day at recess, I would take that Ruly Curt down to the kindergarten classroom to actually show kids how to play. I think it was Oregon, Oregon trail, and I did basic dos coding with them. I was like a computer camp geek. And so it's always been. To be quite Frank.

Like since I can remember, I always liked helping other people and educating other people. So that's kind of where it started. And then, you know, as I say, the rest is history, but throughout my career I was in television for a while. I even found opportunities there. When I worked for Eddie Bauer in retail, in high school, I was like the staff trainer at my store.

So it was, it's just always sort of been part of my DNA, I guess, for lack of a better term. And when I made a big shift from television into sort of like, telecommunications. That's when I went into that organization in the operation space, in the call center. So I was the guy that used to like talk to you about your bill and that went on for about a year.

And I knew when I, I entered to tell us that that that was not the end goal, it was to be in the learning department. And thankfully I was able. Parlay what happened to me in the call center space to a career within the learning function there very quickly. And yeah, I've been doing it since.

[00:05:04] Lisa: Yeah.

it's so funny that you have that call center background. Cause you know, I do as 

[00:05:07] Glen: Yeah. 

[00:05:07] Lisa: after I left teaching and I did that for a short time and then went directly into the training side as well and never looked back. So you spent some time after Telus, I think you went into hospital for sick children then. 

[00:05:19] Glen: Yes I did. And that was like a. Uber rewarding experience. I had been a very loyal employee of clarinet and Telus, which it became in the early two thousands. But I kind of looked around and I thought to myself, there, there might be something else out there. And part of my nature is really to want to try and give back.

So it sort of speaks to that whole idea. As of young person, I always wanted to have. Others. And I thought what an incredible way to connect those two things as part of my, the fiber of my being was to like, be in a space that has nothing but the mandate to help other people and to set up from the ground up where there was like nothing in terms of online learning experience.

Those processes to be able to decentralize the development of the content, using folks in the organization, nurses, doctors where our instructional designers per se, and then to evolve the technology as well. Telus gave me that sort of like spark you, you can't help, but learn it along the way.

I went to theater school, like I knew nothing other than I liked computers. Right. But I was not trained in this. And so yeah, my, my time at Telus. Form the foundation for what ended up happening at sick kids, in partnering with a team of three to launch an LMS, never been involved in something that large.

And then the content side was really my core responsibility. And by the time we launched that system in a bit of a period of two years, We had almost 500 titles in, the system on day one, which is unheard of, we had the luxury of a long slow learn to get the system launched, but all of that content was being built in the background by people who actually did the work.

[00:06:50] Lisa: Yeah. Yep. 

[00:06:52] Glen: Yeah. So I created this decentralized network of people that were very smart in what they did clinically and put it into an e-learning system. So yeah, it was just, it was phenomenal. I can't believe at that point in my journey. And at that age, I was just like, given that kind 

[00:07:06] Lisa: Yeah. Well, I still remember when I interviewed you, because you were at, you were at sick 

kids and I was trying to find my new directors in your senior leader and. I remember being very impressed by that and really thought, oh, okay. That's quite the accomplishment. I 

wonder what you could do with a, with a large team of 30, which he went on to, to achieve.

So maybe you could tell, tell me a little bit about at home Depot, what you're currently responsible for an 

[00:07:32] Glen: sure. Sure. I I'm really blessed because I get to use the creative side of my brain and the analytical, like technical side of my brain that was grown earlier on every day because I lead the design from. And I also lead the operations function. So, the health and maintenance and learner experience for our enterprise LMS and all reporting and analytics comes out of one side of my brain and the team that I love dearly that does that work for me.

And then the instructional design group. So the innovation that's happening there. Most specifically and proudly we have really delved in, we we've taken a big bite out of performance support. So we have devices in store that associates can actually carry around with them and it's become their online resource tool while institutes.

So as a customer has a concern or a question we're, we're purveying information to them. Vis-a-vis this mobile experience. And that was really the. 

[00:08:24] Lisa: So it's that looking in the, in the moment kind of 

[00:08:26] Glen: Yeah, it's, it's, it's just in time, literally high, which hammer do I buy and then this poor performance support tool, which is gamified as well, which was a big coup for us gives them that information in real time as they need it.

And we're evolving that platform constantly. you know, COVID, if I was to pivot Was an opportunity for us to really lean into being able to support our associates from home. So the home Depot is a pretty traditional organization. When you get down to it incredible place to work. it's a family.

I call it a tamely anytime I, interviewed somebody, I said, you're entering into a family routine and a family. But one. Greatest concerns at the beginning of COVID was that we couldn't really pervade learning to people that were offsite. And we were all of a sudden, especially in the head office space in this mass Exodus, we were all working from home in a situation where you know, the only certainty was uncertainty.

We didn't know if we were passing this through the air. Like I, I envisioned when I thought about it a lot. I, you know, when you see a bunch of kids that are starting to learn to swim and they got the water wings on it, They're slapping. There's a lot of water splashing all over the place and it's a lot of noise and movement, but nobody gets across the pool when they're learning.

If you know what I mean, like there's a lot of slopping of the water, but let's get to the, where am I going with it? So I always thought of it that way. We were just kind of flailing and as much as it felt chaotic I immediately started to look at ways that we could start to get our associates onboarded during this pandemic.

Without having to physically be in harm's way and come into the store to learn for their formative pieces. So all of the compliance and safety education. So I started making a lot of phone calls, my friends in it, my friends and marketing my friends all over the place. And I kept getting sadly, no, where's your budget.

What's the value proposition. And I said We're just trying to do the right thing. One of our values is doing the right thing and other one is taking care of our people. And you know, they're not just words on the wall. To me, we've all worked in that place where you walk by it and go, yeah, that's nice.

But nobody even 

knows what that means. Right. And this is not that space. So I really took this, Our core values to hurt in a situation that was untenable. We just didn't know what the next step would be. So long story short, I had all these conversations and it was like, where's your business case?

And the finally I had a bit of a record scratch moment with somebody who might hold in very high esteem. And I said, you know, this isn't about a business case. There is no business case here. This is a values-based decision, pure and simple. This is how we are, this is who we are and I'm not going. I don't have the luxury of time to figure out how I'm going to show you know, this is a cost center item is not a, it's not a revenue center.

We've got to do this because it's the right thing to do. And I kept getting no. So that's a Friday night of a very long weekend of no, no, no. I felt like, like the endless dear John letter, like can help you. Where's your bag of money? I don't have one and I was brushing my teeth. And my bathroom and I kind of got a bit Misty.

Like I started to cry a little bit and I thought, God, I can't believe in a situation where, where we need to be thinking outside of the box and innovative. And to an end, that is really important, which is, you know, I don't, I don't want to compare it to saving lives, but we were really trying to keep people out of harm's way.

So I finished my tears. I finished my two rushing and I picked up the phone and I called a partner, a vendor partner that I've had a great relationship for a long time. And I. Psychotic voicemail. Like pretty much,

[00:11:47] Lisa: I wish I could hear that. We're now going to play it for everybody. No, I'm kidding. 

[00:11:52] Glen: no it's been burned. No, not psychotic, but just like, you know, I'm so upset and I can't believe, and you know, why isn't everyone like coming to my aid and I don't understand. And I was really getting, digging in and being my little boy and I'm like, mm, you know, stomping my feet and saying, why doesn't he want to help I'm screaming into the void?

Like, please help him no help. And I got a call back the next day from this vendor and they said, give me a date. I said, I'll pay for it even of my own pocket. I just got to make this happen because I'm scared. We're scared. This is fear-based in a certain way. We don't know what's happening and people could die.

And so, or at least be put in harm's way, if we can avoid it, let's import it. And the next day I got to call back and he said, I've talked to the principal. He said, give Glen whatever he wants. And they had a system that they were piloting and trying to improve upon that we eventually leveraged at $0.

To be able to support all of the, our new hires. It, it ended up being in the thousands of, of new store associates that have gone through this system. It's not integrated, it's scrappy but it did the job. And you know, the resolve on that is that I realized it was a watershed moment for me, where I thought you don't need bags of money.

You don't need business cases. You don't need value propositions when you're doing the right thing. And you're empowered to do that by your organization. You just need people that want. And so it was so, you know, it was so mind blowing once it finally, and the work that went on like hours and hours at night weekends, like I did it because I was so connected to this and so passionate about doing the right thing and helping other people.

And now it's become a model for what we are transitioning to in our enterprise learning management system. We're on an old one. It's not cloud based. It's literally duct tape and seaweed is holding it together. No offense to anybody, but. And we have to, we have to evolve, but this is, this has been a great case study and will give us data, the business case that everyone wants for 

why we should be allowing people to work from home because there's always security reasons.

There's always reasons about why this is about idea, but 

[00:13:40] Lisa: so when you talk about this onboarding, this external onboarding system with new associates coming on board and all those stores, or all those months, we were in locked down, what is it a delivery mechanism or so like, like a content, like if, a way to deliver the content 

and tracking it. 

[00:13:54] Glen: it's, it's a, it's a learning management system. Similar to what we have, it's just, it's outside our firewall, but we have worked some angles with it to be able to validate someone's identity, to ensure that we have the right people coming in to the system without having to integrate with our core HCM or core LMS.

So we in effect are running two systems and we backfill manually. I have an amazing team that. Thankfully Welk graciously does all of that extra work in the background because they know it's the right thing to do because we do have to put it into our system of record. But the two roads shall never meet.

And that's the only way we could get it done scrappy and quickly, but 

[00:14:30] Lisa: Scrappy and nimble it's, it's, it's really a beautiful example. 

Congratulations on 

being agile right in the moment and responding situationally. Because Yeah.

this, this has been, this has been a year and a half plus plus of not being able to do business as normal and, requiring new new tidbits of innovation and, and kind of like, scrappiness, I like your word 

scrappiness. 

[00:14:54] Glen: we use it all the time. It was scrappy, very scrappy and cheap. So by the grace of other, no, no, really by the grace of other partners that just are in the same mindset. And I think that's the thing I love about the home Depot, the people that are inside the building, or have a certain mind that people we partner with or have the same.

Because within uh, within 24 hours, I had a yes and I didn't know how much it was going to cost. And then when they said, we're just going to give it to you. It showed up like how we do business showed up with the people that we do business with. It was, it was 

amazing. 

[00:15:25] Lisa: about home Depot, I mean being such a huge retailer, I mean, I'm a, I'm a frequent flyer. So it, my husband, because he's a handyman and 



we have some rental properties and we were, and then we did a kitchen run a more recently. So we're there a lot, but during the pandemic, I mean, you're constantly ordering then going and sitting in 

that parking lot.

And we had to even pivot around how they got the work done, 

[00:15:44] Glen: Oh yeah,

[00:15:45] Lisa: Package it up and get it out to the customers. And 

[00:15:47] Glen: yeah. 

[00:15:47] Lisa: did much better than some other retailers that I visited during that curbside delivery service. 

[00:15:53] Glen: yeah.

We, we, we did a great job very quickly. Like I couldn't share a hundreds of examples all over the organization where COVID compelled us to do things that we always found excuses not to do before, because we.

I don't know how, how can I say it fairly?

It's simple. We were only compelled to do it by COVID as quickly as we got there, we have big dreams, you know, family right here where you start paying with sweat. We were paying with sweat. Because we had, but without that compulsion, it would have been a slower burn and much more methodical and thoughtful, and that's all good.

But sometimes when, the rubber really needs to hit the road, you find ways to get there without compromising your values and your

[00:16:31] Lisa: Look at the, what the federal government was actually capable of. 

Right. And getting that urgent 

emergency funding into people's hands like that alone, if the government can do it right. So they say but it is interesting. So, so maybe tell us about you and I were talking in the green room about your plans for return to office.

W how was the, how is the 

[00:16:49] Glen: oh yeah. I would say very, very planfully and respectfully and compassionately. and you gotta realize in Canada, there's about 32,000 of us. Only about 3000 of those people are head office associates or so store support associates as we call ourselves where the luxury of flexible work has always been something that I've been able to depend upon.

Like I could work at home any day that I needed to, as long as I could make my day work. It was never an issue to work. The organization has spent a great deal of time and care, trying to determine what the complexion of our workforce is and being very compassionate about the fact that let's face it.

We've got to grab it, used it. Like I don't get up at five 30 anymore. At least if I do, I don't have to get in the shower and brush my teeth and get to an office space. I can actually be productive and, you know, ease into my morning So we're, we're where we are right now is that there's a big project that's happening in terms of the air quality of the building and track and making sure that we're compliant there and safe.

So we, I myself have been working from home since March eight. I think of 2020. Is that the math? So it's almost 20 months. Right. And I am under no. Pressure to return to a physical space. I have been classified without getting into all the minutia about how we've done it. But we have to be sensitive companies.

We know that our store associates don't have the luxury. We need people in orange prints in the store doing the work. So we're trying to do it sensitively and make sure. The folks that can take advantage of maybe a more mobile experience in terms of how they continue to work, we're going there.

And we've been very generous with our frontline associates around compensation and bonuses for, you know, being the kinds of people that want to help others and will put themselves to a certain degree, you know, in the path of some harm COVID by being in the stores. But to sum it up, I mean, I will probably be in a space where I'll never physically have to be there any set number of 

[00:18:37] Lisa: Right. right. It will sort of be as needed. Yeah. 

[00:18:40] Glen: Right. And the studies are clear. We are more productive in this mode. I know it's a bold statement, but it's true. They get lot more juice out of this orange when I'm sitting at home.

[00:18:51] Lisa: Yeah. I mean, I, there's a, there's a flip side to that cause there's either some of my coaching clients, certainly they they've struggled with that throughout the year with there being no line drawn between work and home.

And, and so it's kind of hard to shut it off. I know I struggled with that early on when I went out on my own and now I was home all the time.

So, you know, needing to be very conscious and mindful. Putting in a break, you know, you can always come back to it, but it is interesting that it's right there waiting for you at 

[00:19:20] Glen: Well, I got to tell you, Lisa, I've been going since 7:00 AM this morning, 

and this is my break. Thank you. I have been back to back to back to back a whole day. 

And, 

I'm thankful for the opportunity just to like hang out with somebody who I absolutely adore. Thank you for hiring me way back when you did and coming to me and say, I want you to talk about yourself.

I'm like what's happening. This is pretty special. No only because I couldn't fill the day back to back every day. If I, if I wanted to and I have to be, I I'll admit, I'll have to be more mindful sometimes about taking time for myself and just breathing and walking and relaxing. But 

yeah, 

[00:19:53] Lisa: time, you're someone who loves their work. Right. And it shows. And so, you know, it's not always, it's not always a bad thing to, to, be able to stay with what you love a little bit longer. 

[00:20:02] Glen: no, it's true. It's 

true. 

[00:20:03] Lisa: a, on a go train or, 

[00:20:05] Glen: No. 

[00:20:05] Lisa: to the parking garage before, whatever time. So, so it's, 

[00:20:08] Glen: Yeah. 

And, and, and no to that, I work for an employer that embraces the flexible work. So I don't have to think twice about making an appointment for like last week to go for a CT scan. I can just do what I need to do to manage my day and make sure that as long as things are covered, I have the autonomy to be able to carve out my day without scrutiny or fear that I'm going to be judged for, you know, like why is he starting at 6:00 AM and then where it's two o'clock where's lent like there's none of that clock watching.

No, we are all working way too hard for anyone to 

[00:20:41] Lisa: Yeah. And that sense of that sense of agency does such 

a, has such a huge impact in to terms in terms of people's motivation and their 

willingness to put in you know, a bit of 

Discretionary effort.

when I've really needed. Right. So I see that in, in what you're talking about here. So, you know, let's, let's switch gears slightly, and I'm curious about, you've had such an interesting career journey with w you know, quite, quite a few varied experiences in there.

What's had the biggest. Impact on your confidence as, as a learning, as a talent leader over the years. 

[00:21:11] Glen: We're pivoting, but we're not. Cause I'll go back to COVID again. I think that it's been a watershed for me. I have found myself. And it's not like I wasn't people-centric to a certain degree throughout my time. I'm a people person. But I feel like COVID has compelled so many new behaviors for me. So I don't know if I'm answering the question exactly, but I feel like I have found myself being much more charitable.

Generally speaking, I find myself being. Far more empathetic being out of the box in the way that I think about people and what they're capable of and stretching. It's, it's been a really, really interesting ride. And as much as there's a lot of noise out here, that's, it's, there's a little dark. Like I'll be honest.

I barely watch the news anymore. I got to the point around the American election, where I was watching Cuomo and Cooper and lemon back to back. Three hours a night, every night for weeks. And I finally had to shut it off. I couldn't do it anymore. And that, that dark got so heavy for me that I just had to stop.

So 

[00:22:12] Lisa: so first of all, thank you for that, that example of I think about It as input hygiene, right? We have control over how much we allow to be input into our brains and there is so much dark and stuff. So I'm very conscious about just how much I take in, because it can take you down a rabbit hole Yeah.

[00:22:30] Glen: It eats you alive.

[00:22:31] Lisa: About, you know, just when I asked you about the biggest impact on your confidence that that COVID compelled these new behaviors now. So what's the connection with the new behaviors and the confidence piece. 

[00:22:42] Glen: I am far more autonomous in my decision-making. I'm a good boy, generally speaking. And Lisa, you know, when I worked for you, I probably would have checked in more than one two. And just because that's how I was wired. Now I have the confidence based upon the way my organization has behaved during COVID to be extremely Immediate in my decision making, as long as I know that I am mapping it to a values about our values, I can depend upon the fact that, and it just built my confidence to be more direct.

And I would say expedite my decisions. I could analysis paralysis things to death, and I don't do it anymore because. Let's face it. We don't have the luxury of that time anymore. Now there are certain things you have to like be more formal and rigorous in terms of your decision-making and when it fundings involved.

But no, I feel like when it comes to people, decisions my organization out this time, not that they weren't before has been tenfold putting the leaders of people in a space where they don't need to think of. If somebody needs, you know, an extra week off, because they're going to visit an alien relative, I say, we'll make it work, take your computer, go like, and there was a time when there'd be paperwork and really is that what we're doing?

And now it's by get 

gone. 

[00:23:57] Lisa: impact been on, engagement? 

[00:23:59] Glen: through the roof, through the roof, as an example we do bi-annual now survey of our associates across the organization in capabilities for leadership. Our numbers are off the charts. And if I was to toot my own horn, my numbers are off the charts. Like my, my, what we call VOA scores have been extremely high, like to the point where I'm, I'm looking for, you know, like knots on pinheads.

In stacks of hay that are in a barnyard. Like I. it feels as if we have just been empowered to do the right things and it's showing up in terms of the way that people are offering us discretionary effort being more flexible and willing to take on a little bit more here and there. With certain, you know, like, parameters so that we're not burning people out.

And the feedback that I receive constantly, like, I, I, there was an associate that I onboarded, well, one of my direct managers. Incredible person who was going to be an instructional designer for us, but then was on a contract about six months in a permanent role by somebody who was through attrition was exiting and going into his retirement phase, came up and I thought we have to find.

Person, permanent employment. We can't lose her. We can't, and I'm willing to sacrifice my own deliverables in the ID space to make sure, to give her to somebody else within my sphere and learning that this person stays with the organization because that's that's what we need here. And, and it was a bit of, I was conflicted because I thought to myself, well, you know, I got things to do.

And if I give this up purely because I don't want this person to leave. Nothing other than a contract and we can offer them permanent position in up space that they're also passionate about. That's the right thing to do. And we did it. So she called me and said, we haven't had a catch-up in a long time.

And I want to talk to you today. If I can. I just want to check in with you. And I had this amazing conversation with her. You know, to a certainty, she kind of gosh, about her experience with the company. She's like, thank God for you. And thank God that you engineered the way that you did. And I'm so happy where I am, and I'm glad I didn't have to look for another job potentially in 18 months.

Like I'm, you're in it to win it. And it's those moments when you kind of go, does it serve me directly? No, not really. I'm making a sacrifice here, but for the greater good, this is a long-term prospect for our organization. Yeah.

[00:26:10] Lisa: it's, it's that whole concept of. Well, I'm fascinated by reframing and finding the gift in everything, even if 

it's a difficult experience. So in this case, you know, the gift is what, how it does serve you is, is it sounds like this deep satisfaction that I 

did, the right thing, that this person is benefiting from that.

And it's this upholding of your values. And then you think about COVID so difficult through. So like, it really has been tough for so many 

people in so many different ways. And at the same time we do here, it's been kind of beautiful because there's been lots of good stories too, around, you know, how it underscored the need for connection, the, 

the increase in empathy 

that have many years experience like yourself.

So, 

[00:26:51] Glen: We were worried about our culture. Point blank. I said, I don't know how I'm going to create this type of as like safe tamely when we've never met people that I've now onboarded within my broader purview. Probably that six people, seven people, one of whom I've actually met in person physically the rest I've never, ever, I've never laid eyes on them other than like here.

Right. And I thought to myself, how are we going to make people feel that field without being able to be in a room with them? And I challenge anybody who is doubting that that's not possible. It is possible. We have such deep connection with the people that are in this space. And I don't know, sometimes desperate times and situations create a certain chemical reaction that doesn't require you're in the same space.

I was so nervous about this. I was the first thing I said, I don't. I said, I don't know how we're going to keep this culture going because we're not, we know we're going to see these people 

and it's visceral. And I am a true believer in that experiential part of it. I'm telling you. I been, I've been converted.

I, I was the hardest sell.

[00:27:55] Lisa: you know, I think it depends because I do some virtual facilitation and I really try to make it very intimate, you know, instead of just boxes on the

screen, you know, the organizations where they're willing to have their cameras on and they're engaged in ready learners not works and so on. Can be a little trickier with some other groups where they're, they they're trying to multitask behind a blank screen kind of thing.

but it is interesting. Like for instance, I do. earlier on, and I guess it was in the fall and I co facilitator assistant one of the faculty at Adler with one of the, the week-long coaching sessions that they do. So when you're a graduate, you can go back and assess and it's, it's really deepens your own learning.

Glen, it's just like the most fantastic experience. But talk about. An intimate, incredible learning experience for those folks. And it was all over zoom. And I really credit Brian, who was the faculty member. but, you know, I felt it and I know they felt it. And it's it's that you need that for people to have trust in the organization, 

or if they're in a learning event, right.

To have trusted that they're where they should be. So. 

[00:28:53] Glen: no for sure. And I, I wondered. Vulnerability is something that's really important to me. And the way that I navigate the relationships with the people I support and those that they support. And that was another one of those moments where I'm like, how am I going to be vulnerable on camera? Like I, yes, I did go to theater school.

So maybe I have a better skill, but well, more than the average person who's been working in a space, that's like a concrete box with the same, you know, gotta make the donuts mentality. Like that guy that got up every, the Dunkin donuts, Marshall. How are they surviving this if, if they can't, if they weren't really maybe great at being vulnerable when they had the, chemistry happening now, the chemistry has changed.

It's somehow filtered through this box that we're talking on. But yeah, I don't know. I just, it seems to work. We just, we were blessed to have a really solid culture too. And I would 

look at organizations, 

[00:29:42] Lisa: I think 

that's probably you had that beautiful foundation already in place. 

So, so I think, I think, that's key because I do know,

that that for, for a lot of people, like the zoom fatigue is real. To even, and it's been kind of, you know, medium for me for like pre COVID 

[00:29:57] Glen: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:58] Lisa: So I think it's just being sensitive to that, but I really that.

You've been able to, to still cultivate that, that level of engagement and connection in spite of going over 

[00:30:08] Glen: yes. And it takes a village. Like, I hope that I'm speaking the first person a lot, so know that. This is not about me Glenn, as an individual, I am part of a machine. 

And so when I say I, I, when I say I, it takes a village and I that's the first thing I said, the external LMS, I talked a bit earlier, took a village of people that were willing to put a discretionary.

It's not just about me. I just had a moment, like I'm going to cry and sit at my feet and then decide that I'm going to get this done. It wasn't me like doing it all. Like there were people around me who were willing. Right. But I think that Th that was the linchpin for us. We, we had a really solid foundation to work from and it's grown.

It's gotten better. I think 

[00:30:47] Lisa: Yeah, tremendous. Tremendous. So, you know another question that I wanted to ask you it's, it's not quite connected to this. But mentoring, I find mentoring so interesting. I was listening to this really interesting interview on a podcast yesterday with Adam Grant. And it was, she was interviewing Indra Nooyi, who was the former term chairperson and CEO of Pepsi 20 years ago or something.

Oh my God. It was so interesting. But she was talking about feeling that. Mentors find you, it's not that you find them or ask them, but anyways, just, just curious about, you know, what you've experienced in your career, who's mentored you and how did that come to be? 

[00:31:22] Glen: Well, I think of mentors broadly too, because as I told you, I, I, I was really interested in education and helping others at a very early age. So I remember there are some really. Educators. My grade six and thankfully eight teacher Barry Adams was somebody that really gave me a passion for wanting to be a teacher.

Like he was like the epitome of educator. I was blessed in the public school system here in Toronto to have an amazing experience. I hear so many horror stories about that, but we had a faculty that. Yeah. 

[00:31:54] Lisa: Yeah. 

[00:31:55] Glen: maybe it was the seventies who knew, 

like there's something in the seventies and eighties and we just, hadn't really great educators and it's not, that's not to cast aspersions on what's happening.

Now. The world has changed. We are in a universe on a world that spins tides rise and fall things change. People are different now, but I just, Miranda was one. We had a French teacher who was exceptional and. They were humane and they were also great educators. I learned a lot. My father is another person.

I would say that guy was about education by experience. We were so blessed because my brother and I both, wherever my parents went, we went with them. There's not a holiday that they took by themselves when that was sorta more. Uh, Thing and like the seventies and eighties, like mum, mum, and dad would leave you with the grandparents and they'd go off to like, you know, wherever Fiji, and you'd be getting photographs.

When they got home, he took us by the hand everywhere we went everywhere. And so I feel like sometimes experience learning and helping people through a process or something. And making, having them do it, learning by doing hard things or just by doing those things is really important. So lot of the people that formulated to how I do what I do, I guess, took that approach, especially my dad.

I think as well at the hospital as Sue tallit she was the director. She was the chief of education. She was a former pediatrician and She built the learning Institute by all accounts at the hospital for sick children. And she was an exceptional mentor. I didn't know my blank from my blank when I got into healthcare.

Right. Like, I was a non-clinician no, I didn't. I was a non-clinician I, again, I'm a dancer. I went to school. And so I'm in this situation where it was extremely rare for a non-clinician to be put in a position of somewhat authority in a space like that. And she was so gracious with me. My boss, Kelly McMillan at the team at the time two director helped really help me.

She was a, I think she was a kinesiologist by trade. But she was an amazing. I'll say yourself, Lisa and, and Trudy. you 

[00:33:49] Lisa: Sheridan 

[00:33:50] Glen: I had reentered the retail space after many, many years when I was selling, you know, like farewell sweaters in the aisle at Eddie Bauer in like the nineties. So you helped me get my sea legs again in a company.

Quite frankly, that was going through a watershed. right. 

We knew what we were up against where we were. And so you kind of re re retailed me which I really appreciated. And you gave me a lot of latitudes, so I'm not really I'm meandering. Now. This is just a love letter to the people that have always been really helpful.

But 

[00:34:17] Lisa: But it's interesting. It's interesting. The themes that, that, that, you know, coming up from the people you've mentioned that you know, sort of sounds like there's that, that truck. You know, to give you latitude, that seems right from your, your mom and dad and trusting that you could handle going 

where they went.

And I think that's really fascinating. I don't know. Does it 

does that show up for you as 

[00:34:38] Glen: does. It does. And I think as well, I w I'd be remiss in not mentioning my experience at the home Depot. I have a phenomenal director, Jane as well as our VP of HR who has very interesting story. She's an amazing woman. Her name is Eliana, and she came from CIPC. She retired she was at that point in her journey and she, I believe she came out of retirement to come to the home Depot, to lead the HR function.

And at the end of the day, I worked her for six years, five months and 12 days, I think. And she just left and I just really heard more that where I think you might know, I play the piano, right. And every time and I range as well. And every time I would leave a room with Lem that Allien had been in, I was humming and I'm also theater deed.

So I was humming defying gravity from. 

And I thought I have to send her this love letter to, I've just heard about your retirement. And I, I shared my experience with her and I actually sat at the piano and I played the song because I wanted her to know that she spoke to me on so many levels. As a, especially as a, people-centric leader, our new VP is just as strong.

I can't wait to spend more time with him, but that person Eliana really had a deep impact on me. And I don't know if under other leadership, if I would have responded the same way.

[00:35:50] Lisa: Right. Yeah, that's a good point. 

Cause you know, 

[00:35:53] Glen: I, I was so compelled to do better. I was so compelled to be the best leader that I could be because of the modeling that Jane and Eliana and others at the home Depot have offered to me. I just don't know if I would have survived it. if I was working for a different person, we all went from that burning thing 

[00:36:11] Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. So it goes back to that same strong foundation. It really sounds like it was firmly in place before COVID and only got better. It's like, you 

know, some really good relationships and, and, trust already built in support. Like, it sounds like very collaborative culture, 

Leave within your area.

Yeah. Beautiful. Oh, you're so lucky. I love it. So let's kind of move towards our rapid question 

then I believe the time I'm like, wow, 

that 

[00:36:37] Glen: can. Yap. Right? 

[00:36:38] Lisa: flute. 

No, no, you and I could go for 

hours and hours. 

So You know, I think people really enjoy this part. When I ask people about the biggest lesson they've learned over their years in our field, because I 

just think there's so many 

nuggets of wisdom in the answers. 

[00:36:51] Glen: So I know you're right. There's so many one. I remember a good friend of mine, a colleague, when I was at Telus, when I got my first people leadership role. She said to me, cause she had been a director. We came up through the ranks together. We both started answering calls and talking about bills basically the same day.

I think we're on the same day. And when I got my first people leadership job and she was already a director had been for quite some time, she said to me, Glenn, choose your words carefully. Because as somebody who leads people, they attach a lot to what you say. It's not like you're some, you know, like a yapping in the background anymore.

That's got an opinion. Your words, hold a lot. Words are important. And Marie Adams taught me that to your words, my father, your word is your bond. So as a leader, I had to learn to watch Madame mouth. Like I really actually had to be very conscious about the things I said. I tend to be, some people have criticized, some people enjoy this about me.

I tend to be somewhat visionary and I feel like everybody wants to know what the deal. I get into the weeds and I, and I, I get my hands dirty and I roll around in it. And I think everybody wants to know those details. They don't, it's too much information if you've ever seen your Intel in the musical, there's this line in it that we're one of these characters.

She's a foil. She's basically a literary device. When she says something about, he says, what's wrong with this play? One of the protagonists is what's one of them too much exposition. I am the embodiment of too much exposition. I have way too much exposition. If you're a writer, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

I need to learn to shut up sometimes and just give the details that give the level of information that's required. And when you go a bit too deep, which I tend to do, and I'm getting better at, sometimes it can create confusion. Sometimes people think that my vision is the, is the law. Now I'm talking about aspirational thing.

But when you talk about aspirational things in a broader group, the attachment that I was warned about is that this is 

[00:38:44] Lisa: Yes. 

Yes. 

[00:38:46] Glen: no, that's not remotely. What I said. I said, I would love to get there, but you're all like talking in the background about how I'm crazy, because now I'm saying, well, if I'm saying this and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

That's where I'd like to see a scope, but I'm not saying we're going to get there and out yet. So I got to watch it. And so that's what the most valuable thing that anyone ever told me. And I still stink at it sometimes, but when I'm doing it, I know I'm doing it. And I stopped myself.

[00:39:09] Lisa: Well, it's such a great example of a lesson learned. That's powerful because it is interesting, right? The power of words and, and how much. Put authority against those words. Right? So learn. Cause I mean, I've had senior leaders, like C-suite be confused and frustrated that their people have spun a bunch of wheels investigating something that they were like, I just mentioned it in a meeting as an idea.

I thought maybe it might work. And they went and spent all this time on thinking, well, Yeah.

because you're the CEO or the CFO, like, so, you know, They, they think it's an order, unless you explicitly say I'm just kind of dreaming of 

it here. 

[00:39:46] Glen: Yup. 

[00:39:47] Lisa: looking for anybody to move you do. You have to be explicit. So 

thank you for that reminder. Yes, it certainly is. Well, thank you so much for coming on today and for your time and, and stories, it's been such, such a delight and I'm just glad that we got a chance to catch up as 

well. 

[00:40:02] Glen: thank you. Me too. You were far too kind. You were 

[00:40:05] Lisa: Yeah. 

[00:40:05] Glen: too kind, but I, I, as I said, this was just a delightful break in my day. I'm so glad we got the opportunity and I'm, I'm very, that you would call me to ask. So I appreciate that. Just little old, me doing my thing over here 

[00:40:16] Lisa: my pleasure. Well, you got, you bring a lot to the table, so I think you did deserve a platform for 

it, 

so thank you clam.