Creating a Purpose-Led Culture with Matt Price

 “The approach that you take reflects the culture you have and the culture you aspire to have.”

 - Matt Price

What does it take to create the right environment where people can truly thrive at work?   Could you use some inspiration about how to create trust in a post-pandemic, hybrid work environment?   Then hit play on this episode right now!

My guest is Matt Price who is VP of HR East Europe for Unilever, the home of Dove personal care products, Seventh Generation laundry products, Knorr soups and many other globally-recognized brands. Matt is responsible for HR in a very large, diverse and complex region, and brings clear-eyed thinking and a truly strategic perspective to his work and to this conversation.

In this episode of Talent Management Truths, you’ll discover:

🍏 Why finding your purpose is a basic need

🍏 How important it is to never come short on the basics when serving your workforce 

🍏 Key insights into the concept of responsible restructuring 

About Matt Price:  Matt is a business focused, collaborative and senior strategic HR leader & partner with national and global leadership experience across multiple industries in Fortune 500/FTSE 100 organizations. A trusted, energetic & approachable leader, high performing team builder and inspiring coach with a positive outlook and strong bias for action.  Matt has lived and worked in Canada, the US and the UK in a variety of HR leadership roles over the last 20 years.  Embracing hybrid working, Matt currently lives in Toronto, Canada and leads the HR function for Eastern Europe in Unilever consisting of over 20 countries and 4000 people. 

Links

• Matt Price on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-price-8003462/  

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Lisa: Welcome back to talent management truths. I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell. And today my guest is Matt price. What does it take to create the right environment where people can truly thrive at. Could you use some inspiration about how to create trust in a post pandemic hybrid work environment, then hit play on this episode right now, Matt is vice president of human resources, east Europe for Unilever, the home of dove personal care products, seventh generation laundry products, or soups, and many other globally recognized brand.

He's responsible for HR and a very large diverse and complex region and brings clear eyed thinking and truly strategic perspective to his work and to this conversation. He and I go way back as friends and former colleagues. And I know you will enjoy his way with words as he paints a picture for us of the progressive approach that he and Unilever take in terms of their people and talent practices.

Thanks for listening. hello, and welcome back to talent management truths. I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell. Today I'm joined by Matt price. Who's an old friend and colleague. We go way, way back. And Matt is currently the vice president of human resources at Unilever for the east Europe division. And so you may know, you know, leaver, there's many different brands that we're familiar with in our house.

We've got Hellman's mayonnaise, VIM, cleaning supplies. We've got corner soups and so on and, and a whole host of others that I'm sure. I, I don't even know as me by Unilever. So I want to welcome Matt here to the show. Thank you so much for coming on today.

[00:03:28] Matt: Thank you for asking me, this is exciting. it's wonderful to reconnect and wonderful to share, some story. 

[00:03:32] Lisa: Absolutely. So, Matt, would you begin perhaps just, just quickly telling us a little bit about your broad responsibilities at Unilever.

[00:03:40] Matt: Yeah, thanks for asking. So you did, you.

did a banner job in terms of articulating it. Unilever is a global consumer packaged goods organization about 155,000 employees. 

Um, and yeah. and operating in almost every country in the world. they operate in three big categories, beauty and personal care foods and home care would be the big, big categories that we make and sell and sell products and Unilevers it is uh, Fascinating organization because it's one of the pioneers in purpose led brands.

so a lot of organizations you'll hear a lot about today talking about finding their purpose and standing for and standing for purpose. 

Exactly, but Unilever is a real noble organization that that really stands behind what it markets and what it makes markets and sells to the consumer.

So, you know, it's very special organization doing very special things in the world today. 

[00:04:35] Lisa: You're lucky, lucky person to be able to work there. So in your work, supporting HR for east Europe, what gets you out of bed every day?

[00:04:43] Matt: Yeah, I think, I think, you know, it's the variety that gets me out of bed. So in the part of the world that I have the privilege of leading you know, there's 20 countries divided into five business units. Those 20 countries range in the north from from Estonia to the. in Cyprus and it is a wonderfully complex and diverse part of the world where you've got a real mix of call it you know, developed and developing economies.

And so you get you get a lot of everything. You know, you've got, very strong. Manufacturing capabilities in this part of the world, you've got very strong digital commerce and e-commerce capabilities in this part of the world. you've got a part of Europe. That's used lot for lower labor rates.

So a lot of, a lot of capability flows into this part of the world to really power power. the economies and companies on the planet, you know, so it's a very dynamic part of the world. I'd also say that, you know, my experience has been the people in this part of the world, there are wonderfully authentic.

And so, you know, it's been a real pleasure to step into the role and really look to not only serve the people that work at Unilever, but also the citizens and consumers in that part of the world with our brands. 

[00:05:54] Lisa: Hmm. So in terms of, so, so it sounds like. I think you're a fan of where you work, which is a nice thing to be, right. Because 

not once we're in the, we're in the era of the great resignation. So it's, you know, to, to have such respect for the people you work with and for the organization. So what is your purpose in your role?

You talk about per being purpose led as a brand. What about your purpose for, the work that you do specifically?

[00:06:18] Matt: Yeah. So, you know, I think PR purpose is a very powerful thing. and I think many leaders have a role to play to help foster purpose and help people find purpose in their work. You know, I like to describe my purpose as, you know, as really holding the.

I have it in quotes that way, because, you know, I see it as a key part of my role as a talent management leader and an HR leader to, to really hold up the mirror to leaders and two employees that way to help give them the feedback, give them the knowledge And give them a sense of a sense of responsibility.

that they might, that they might otherwise not know. it becomes actually kind of, a real source of energy and inspiration for me to play that role to help people really uncover their purpose or for chart their careers in the organization.

And. You know, I, I would say that that might've flown off the tongue for me, but you know, purpose is very much a, dominant thread that cuts through the organization. So many organizations we'll talk. a lot about having purpose. Unilever, I think takes it a step further and we actually train people in helping them find their purpose and have been doing that since 2017.

I think at latest count over 75,000 employees have gone have experienced uh, purpose workshop. It's a simple one day, purpose workshop designed by Unilever for Unilever but a very moving and very powerful experience for. 

[00:07:43] Lisa: And so what, what has that, how has that served to the organization?

[00:07:47] Matt: Yeah. You know, I think the, this idea of purpose while it may be a reach for some, it's actually a real basic. When you actually boil it down think about how many, how many books, titles, or 

how many podcasts or how many television shows that you've seen or heard about people finding their purpose and the need to find your purpose?

You know, having people charged. And clear in terms of what they stand for and what they're here to do is incredibly, is incredibly liberating and a monster engagement driver for people because it connects them to what they do day in and day. it serves as a wonderful, not only key source of energy, but also a real element of resilience in a world that changes faster now than it's ever changed.

I think everyone on this podcast will agree that, you know, the amount of change that we've encountered over the last 10 years is probably faster than the last. And, we like to say, and it's probably stay on now, but we'd like to say, you know, the pace of change will never be this slow again.

you know, and I think having, having purpose and having workforce. Energized and inspired by their own purpose is incredibly important to fueling the health and success of the business. Because at the end of the day, if you're, if you don't, if you.

don't take care of your people, then I don't think you're really doing a good job of taking care of your business. 

[00:09:09] Lisa: It. Well, it's so funny because it's easy to look at, you know, the people aspect, the talent aspect, is that your biggest cost, 

right? In terms of running a business, it's also your biggest app. 

I think that little piece sometimes gets forgotten. Right. You know, 

when, when all about, revenue driving, 

you know, in some cases.

Right. so 

it's, so it sounds like you've got a firm handle on, how do we engage? How do we involve people? Right. So that there's that discretionary effort and, and desire to bring their best selves, their best work 

[00:09:37] Matt: Yeah, no, it's, it's very true. It's it's, it's such a good point. You know, today we. pay a lot of attention to ensuring that we're creating the right kind of environment where people can thrive. Right? And So that means, you know, in its most basic form, not ignoring things like psychological safety it means being intentional about creating very inclusive cultures.

It means having a very strong, clear. Commitment to equity, diversity and inclusion in all of its forms, right? Because that's just the narrative that exists today in society. And so, you know, I pity the organizations that turn a blind up. To these social dynamics that are very much alive in our world today ignoring them, you do so at your own peril.

Because you know, it's just such a dominant narrative in the workforce today and it's, inside of the organization and outside of the organization. So organizations must have those ingredients that I just met. order to to really foster healthy workforce and ultimately sustained business results over.

[00:10:41] Lisa: So I'm wondering if you would be able to share a recent example, something you're working on right now that really goes towards supporting, helping people thrive, creating an environment where they can thrive.

[00:10:52] Matt: Yeah.

so, you know, I think there's a few things that that, that I could cite, I think one of them is the work that we're doing in our future of work plan. So that's been that term terminology has been quite popularized over the last kind of year.

But when, when you boil it down, it's really about things like upskilling your workforce, building relevant skills and capabilities needed for today and tomorrow. It's about redeploying your workforce in different ways, it's about exploring different corporate partnerships to kind of, to create more portability and transferability of your workforce from one employer to another.

And it's also a reality of responsible restraint. we know that restructuring is just a fact and organizations do it all the time. But if you don't have a real thoughtful future of work plan and aren't intentional you run the risk of, of doing things. Like they've always been done.

and that may not necessarily be the best way forward. I think that, many heads of industry, you know, are concerned about not building skills and capabilities fast enough in organizations. and as such, you know, the future of work plan that we've put in place is actively committed to building the right and relevant skills for people. So when you think about e-commerce, that has to be a critical skill and capability that everybody needs it, regardless of what function or what role you play, whether it be as a consumer or whether it be as a, as, as someone in a sales capacity understanding this channel is incredibly important because it's such a, big part of our world.

Yeah.

You know, the, the next area that I think is really important is around hybrid working. So, that's also another one that's quite popular right now is really laying out hybrid ways of working. I believe that organizations will pick their path.

They'll say that, we've got to be a face to face environment. Therefore everybody back, or organizations will go hybrid for the ones where all organizations go by. Or all people go back. The reality is, is that they simply just need to plan for significantly higher levels of attrition because with so much choice, especially in this part of the world you know, of employment opportunities and emerging employment opportunities, people have, people will punch them.

And they'll say, no thanks. I'm going to choose I'm going to choose my lifestyle and the balance that I found I'm going to take, what's good from the pandemic. And I'm going to leave behind the craziness of a commute, or I'm going to leave behind the 10 or $12 lunches that I had to buy from a food court somewhere in downtown Toronto you know, or, or whatever city you're in, they'll shift to a place that is much more flexible so that they can hold on to what they were able to take good of from the pandemic. For us, we've simply laid out hybrid working principles and then pulled people together to draft what would be working behaviors necessary to really facilitate the stickiness of hybrid behaviors, because we all know behavior change.

[00:13:49] Lisa: So, so yeah, so you see a little bit more about, about that, but that conversation, the 

[00:13:54] Matt: Yeah, Yeah. So you, you know, when we talk about, when we talk about hybrid working, you have to, you have to start with a principle of trusting your employees, right? Because I think a lot of organizations, they don't necessarily start with a principle of, we trust our people to be doing work when we can't see them.

Right. We're all adults here. We trust our people to be 

doing where we can't see them. 

[00:14:18] Lisa: is, was more real, still is in some quarters 

yet. 

[00:14:21] Matt: still is for sure. Right. And there's, and there's very good reason for that. A lot of organizations do it that way. I'm not, I'm not discounting the approaches that they've taken. However, right for our organization is, is to kind of lay out things like let lay out principles like.

And then follow through with, what are the behaviors that need to be demonstrated by line managers and by employees in order to facilitate that trust on an ongoing basis? Because we all know that trust can evaporate in a minute and you know, and how do you, how do you ensure that. that we're, we're creating the right kind of forums.

And we did this where we had line managers, pull their people together to talk about how are we going to work together in this hybrid, in this hybrid setup. Right? So if we have freedom within a frame, So let's say you, you know, guys, we need to come together 40% of the time. How are we going to do that in a way that is intentional and value added while preserving all that's good from the pandemic.

And so, you know, and, and so we encourage people to think about when you're thinking about coming to work. Think about it, like you're going to a conference or think about it. Like you're going to an event on the day and you've, you've got your day lined up of a multitude of meetings or one big meeting you're coming together to collaborate to co-create and then.

The heads down work that everybody has to do that can be done at a local coffee shop and your home office or where wherever is more suitable, where you have some quiet space. You don't need to treat the office like you did pre pandemic, which was in the office every day, nine to five or eight to six.

Or good knows even more 

right. For some, 

so it was a really important step for us to take, to not only share principles, but also bring people together to talk about the behaviors, because what, what we really wanted people to do was to not have behaviors imposed upon them, but to create behaviors.

That worked so that people had a vested interest in ensuring that they were successful. When you collaborate with people to even create that you've, you're, you're automatically creating a greater likelihood that it's going to stick over the longterm, nothing worse than having behaviors imposed upon people.

You know, last time I checked human beings, don't like that very 

much. 

[00:16:47] Lisa: no, no, no, no. They do not. They want to have that choice and they want to be involved in any kind of change. 

Right. That has direct impact. They need and want to be acknowledged for where they're at with it, given lots of context and be involved. 

So it really sounds like that's happening here. 

It's funny. Cause I'm on episode two with Tanya Cervone another guest that's come on the show. In her organization they're um, training consulting. And they interviewed a lot of leaders. I can't remember the number, but it was significant number to understand what their, how they were working with people to determine what the back to work look like.

And it was really interesting because I think it was just an under half that had actually consulted and involved. The people directly impacted. 

You know, so in a lot of cases, there were these, you know, not Unilever, but unilateral decisions being taken, 

you know, around how people were, we're going to need to show up.

[00:17:40] Matt: Yeah.

I think it's the approach that you take reflects the culture that you are and the culture that you aspire to have, right. Is, is kind of how I'd say that. You know, we're, we are inherently a very collaborative organization, a very flexible and innovative organization. So if we were to mandate something like this, it would actually, it would actually be spat out by the.

You know, it, it would be doomed to fail because it was something that was, that was imposed upon people. But the fact that we took a very collaborative a very collaborative stance to invite people into the conversation to help co-create. it just, it created that stickiness and created that energy and excitement that we knew would be, effective over the long-term.

Now. In the part of the world that I happen to, that I happened to look after, you know, we still we're w there are still offices that are only a 50 or 60% capacity because of the state of the pandemic. Right. but the reality is, is that of that 60%. We're having full attendance.

so of the 60, it's not like we've said it's, it's not like, it's not like 10% of the 60 are showing up of 60% capacity. We're getting 60%. And so people are wanting to come back and they're wanting to come back in a way that really works for. and so, you know, we're, we're actually quite pleased with how our return to work, is going, especially in light of what we've had to endure over the last. 

[00:19:03] Lisa: Well, what, if any, has been a related challenge. So it's gone very well, but what has been the most challenging piece?

[00:19:09] Matt: Yeah.

I think some, some of the challenges that really stick out for me have been things like I think it's a, it's an excellent question. So I'm pausing because I want to give you a, a sharp answer. I think it's really, peoples. Fatigue is probably where I'd start.

And so why is that a challenge? I think this pandemic has tested us in every single, in every single way. And, you know, and, and you don't need me to elaborate much further on that, but how it's impacted our workforce is really just a sense of of people being taught.

Of people you know, struggling to keep up with the demands that just, just keep coming. and I think still finding success in balancing workloads is, is probably how, how that fatigue shows up. 

[00:19:59] Lisa: Do you mean workloads like balancing between home and 

[00:20:02] Matt: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So, so it's, it's obviously their individual workloads, but then it's also just kind of life workloads.

Right. that fatigue is real. And if you, if you follow any of the studies, you'll see that you know, we're at a real weird, a real inflection point, and I think Lisa, you, you made a, you know, Point earlier on about the great resignation, right? that this is real.

Now it's much more dominant in north America than it is in other parts of the world. As we see thus far, but as we know, a lot of trends can come out of north America. and you know, when I and I fundamentally think that people are they're taking what's good. That they've learned from the pandemic, reflecting on what wasn't working pre pandemic and then making a choice.

And I think it's, I actually think. that, that people are making that choice 

because it's very empowering. You know, however it comes with it a whole host of other circumstances, but, you know, I do think that fatigue is a real issue. that that's come up that we haven't solved for.

But we are hoping that with progressive working policies that we'll be able to give people the tools and the space to combat fatigue and find a new groove as they slowly get back into new routines, new rituals Yeah.

Just, just one more point.

I wanted to make, you know, We're at a very, very unique point. And I touched on it a second ago. But, you know, we, haven't seen a moment like this since probably the end of the second world war. Right. And why do I say it that way? I say it that way because we have a wonderful, massive reset button in front of.

and we can choose to influence it or make very powerful choices. And I think talent is making choices as per the great resignation. But it doesn't necessarily have to be that way where your workforce all walks out the door and we experienced 20, 30, 40% attrition rates. my belief is that we are going to have attrition because, because the societal pressures we'll continue to meet.

Right. However the smart organizations will meet those societal pressures with innovative practices and collaborative and collaborative and inclusive environments to help people kind of bring them best selves to work. Right. 

[00:22:05] Lisa: Yeah. So you're really painting a picture of a reframe for us, right? It's from, you know, this has potential difficulty in some short-term pain. Nobody likes to have vacancies on the team. Nobody, you know, like it's tough. And yet reframing, it's an opportunity to be more innovative, to bring in fresh perspective, right.

And for people to find. You know, find their rhythm, find their joy, find their purpose. If it isn't where they've, where they've been. So as much as the pandemic, it was sort of this thing that I think made a lot of us feel you know, a lack of control at points. It was something that you there's just an you're in lockdown, whatever it is, you know, you have these constraints imposed because of, you know, real danger 

health-wise and, and yet coming out of it, it's almost like people are waking up to, oh, I have choice more choice than I realized.

And they're choosing. To step into that.

[00:22:53] Matt: Yeah.

Yeah.

no, I think it's a, we're at a very cool moment for people. Right. and you know, I really hope that That organizations really take it seriously because for the organizations that have their eyes close to it and just say, come on back to work everybody back in.

I think you, you, you know, you, you do so naively. Now there just may be a reality where you know, that's just how your business operates and that's fine. but Ensure that you're including your, your workforce in that decision and including them with the logic and the rationale as to why you're picking one path over another, because I guarantee you they'll understand it more as opposed to have something simply just imposed on them.

I think it'll be, it'll be a more smoother reset or a more smoother reframe now.

[00:23:37] Lisa: I agree. I think you make a good point because I mean, there are certain jobs where they cannot be done at your home, their manufacturing, their, you know, their frontline. And so if you cannot involve people in the decision of whether to return full-time it's, the decision is made because of the nature of the work, how can you involve them in how.

they're engaged in that work in, in the, the, the principles, you know, that you talked about the, how do we want to make this work together? How 

we lead each other? How do we interact? 

so, you know, something that I'm really curious about was we were talking about it earlier before hitting record is you've got some clear ideas about opportunities.

What are the biggest opportunities for talent management leaders as we, we move forward.

[00:24:15] Matt: Yeah. Yeah, no, thanks. You know, and at the risk of, at the risk of repeating myself, you know, I'll, I'll go over them again. But perhaps in this context it'll be, it'll be even clear. You know, so I think first and foremost future. So, you know, having very clear plan to build relevant skills and capabilities for your workforce is really critical.

And I think a huge, a huge opportunity, you know, and thinking innovatively about upskilling and capability development. 

Right. 

[00:24:46] Lisa: it, what's actually an example of that. Cause I think that's something that a lot of people I speak with struggle with, you know, 

how do you get innovative about how you develop talent 

[00:24:55] Matt: Yeah,

So I think, I think very simply, you know, one simple example is you have to adapt virtual learning platforms and virtual and virtual skill development platforms for people. You know, gone are the days of the, okay, we've got to organize an in-person meeting to bring a bunch of people together.

to watch someone at the front of the room, walk you through this. I think that's, I think that's a very old model and it takes far too long now. it's old. Yes. Less effective perhaps. But it's just it's not time. Right. Which is the biggest thing, because it's always going to take too long to pull people together.

So digital, everything is absolutely critical, especially when it comes to learning. Now, getting innovative is around, is around engaging people in these learning platforms, because that tends to be part of the biggest barrier is that people are like, well, I don't want to learn on my own time.

or I don't want to learn through a screen.

whereas the pros are well, you know, you can do it whenever

[00:25:56] Lisa: it's just in time.

[00:25:57] Matt: it's just in time we can put something together and bring it to you quite quickly. I think, I think the communications and the, and the proposition about virtual learning for skill adoption it needs to be made clear and adjusted for the context of your organization, but it's absolutely, it is the platform to impart skills.

At speed, because remember we're at a game that is hyper competitive and we can't be talking in terms of a year to acquire skills when the consumer or when the, or when the marketplace is evolving, 10 times faster than that, organizations are simply are simply going to be left behind.

I think another example is when you look at is when you look at redeployment of people, right, every organization, restructures and every organization changes. And as a result, sometimes people need to go. And sometimes we're sad to see people go and sometimes we kind of shrug our shoulders when people need to go.

However, I think that responsible organizations need to be looking at. how can we think beyond our organization? How can we think about the marketplace or think about the economy. So are there other organizations where we can create some partnerships and move labor or 

move, move, workforces, but from one organization to another.

And we've got examples of where we've done that in the U S between and airlines, for example, where 

[00:27:18] Lisa: Oh, interesting.

[00:27:19] Matt: workforces. So there, there there's a lot of. Innovative practices out there that begin for us to think beyond just 

saying goodbye to people and thinking differently about, well, how can we create not only greater employment, because at the end of the day as business leaders, we all understand that a greater level of employment is.

But then how do we also enhance our brand is being seen as an innovative employer that can find innovative solutions as opposed to we change all the time. as a result of is changing all the time, we're constantly having to say goodbye to people. I think a much more exciting proposition is we're thinking creatively about how and what what's possible with your career.

And it's almost endless. But it's always kind of different employment opportunities, as opposed to a see you later type a 

type of. 

[00:28:09] Lisa: It's a really interesting framework because it's, it's this idea of really tapping into what's right. For your talent, even if where they are currently is no longer, right. Because the needs of the business have changed or their knowledge or experience or skillset or fit. It's just not there.

And yet there's still a human being. There's still, you know, someone with capabilities. So how could we read a plot redeploy? I'm glad you elaborated on that because when you talked about you mentioned responsible restructuring before, I was kind of curious about how 

[00:28:40] Matt: Yeah.

Yeah, because men, many of us that are listening to this podcast will know how restructuring goes. What we're doing is, is, is we're basically saying, hang on a sec. It's time for rethinking. Or re-imagining what this world of change and the manifestation of those changes could actually look like.

And wouldn't it be great as an organization that stands for something more? That you're able to think through those solutions and create new employment opportunities for people. And, and it's their choice to decide where they were, you know, if they stay or if they go. but I think the fact of thinking those things take, thinking that process through creating these opportunities to redeploy with other organizations, I think is a very exciting proposition for people. 

[00:29:24] Lisa: Yeah. And I think there might be some people listening, going. Yeah. Sure. Good for you to say Matt, when you've got like how many thousands of people globally, 

right. And then in the company you can create these big powerful partnerships. And yet I do think that even on a smaller scale, small, you know, maybe not small, medium sized businesses, I think that there's opportunities.

In that kind of tier right size based and industry based, whatever 

it looks like to create these 

synergies, 

[00:29:49] Matt: Yeah. I think you're rightly so. I think it's an, and, and so, you know, yes, we have scale and yes, we can present these big possibilities. This is true. But I also think in smaller sized organizations or small to medium sized organizations, it's having that mindset.

That will serve you. Right. Because then all of a sudden you're open to innovative ways of doing things, right. You know, as opposed to being closed minded to this is how we always do things. So, you know, we're, you know, so why would we, why would we change it? Right. but I think some of the best ideas and the most unique, compelling ideas come from small and size organizations, right.

You know, gee given how much of the economy that those businesses make up.

[00:30:29] Lisa: Yeah. They're real engine combined. Yeah.

[00:30:31] Matt: the second thought I had for you in addition to the future of work was hybrid working. So I think that's a big, big opportunity that organizations need to get. Right. And I talked at length about you know, the importance of of collaborating in order to, to design that future state.

But make no mistake that the, the full book isn't written on hybrid. Right. There's still about six or seven chapters 

to go, right? Um, Yeah. Yeah,

yeah, Like, but the advice for what it's worth that I give listeners is is really treated as a seminal moment to reset and recraft work habits, rituals around how you approach your work and how you approach your life.

So that it works for you and not the other way around. Right. And so I think we're at a wonderful moment that doesn't come along very often and it's happening right now. 

It's not going to happen in a year. It's happening right now. So it's a really important to jump on this momentum and this kind of opportunity that's sitting in front of us. 

The third thing is, and I haven't elaborated on this too much, but I did say something. is how social injustice dominates the narrative and workforces today. You know, a very clearly stated equity diversity and inclusion plan is absolutely critical, as is you know, reporting on and communicating actions against that.

You know, thousands of CEOs around the world had signed the CEO action, diversity pledge you know, so this is a big, big social movement. That's happening all around us. And as, as HR leaders, if you don't, if it's not happening in your organization, you can guarantee it's happening outside of your organization.

So. by, by virtue of that, it is happening in your organization. It's just that you don't see it. it's incredibly important that you have your eyes and ears wide open and you're actively crafting an EDI plan and reporting on those actions. And, and then lastly never come short on the basis.

Right. You know, sometimes we, sometimes we get all excited about shiny new things as a result of all this change that we're faced with that we forget about being really clear on the basics with people and what are those, right. You know, it's making people feel that you care about them and that you care about them.

Right. Make sure that those pieces are absolutely in the fabric of your organization. You know, give them hope and give them purpose. Right? That's those are core things that we need to get, right. Goes without saying, pay them fairly. Right. however, you decide.

Pay fair looks like just pay them fairly. Right. Because that's what the majority of people are really looking for. And then lastly recognize their work, recognize that at every turn right on small basises on big basises recognize their work. These are core ingredients that people crave irrespective of industry, irrespective of, business.

and you know, when, when you fail at getting these. At the expense of doing the other things I mentioned, you're, you're not building a resilient workforce. You're not bringing a workforce with you. And at the end of the day, that's the job. 

Yeah. 

[00:33:34] Lisa: Ultimately it's taking care of people, so they take care of the work, right? It's it's yeah, it has to start with them. The employee experience drives the customer experience is something that, you know, I talk a lot, a lot about in my work. I really believe in that. So yeah, some great examples there. So let's, let's move to kind of the wrap-up question if we would.

Cause I can't believe how quickly that flu that entire conversation, when you think about, you know, you and I work together, Michael. A really, really long time ago, remember that we sat in a little cubicles together and we did that old model 

person at the front of the room training call center agents and all sorts of stuff.

We had good time. Good time though, doing 

it 

learned a lot. So, you know, if you think about our humble beginnings and where you are now, what's, what's the biggest lesson you've learned in our field along the way.

[00:34:20] Matt: Yeah, Yeah. So there's a lot. Right. And I was, I was thinking, I like to, think about that. I think you, you probably took the words right out of my mouth, right? Like when you look after people, they will look after your kids. Right. Is, is kind of the, is, is kind of this big lesson Not only did I didn't learn it in the pandemic because I always knew it, but it's just how consistent you have to be by having that kind of front of mind to ensure that you will, you can kind of look yourself in the mirror. Right. Pardon the metaphor from, from my purpose, but look yourself in the mirror and really say, you know what, when I look at my portfolio of work and the impact that I'm having, can I honestly say that I'm, that I'm trying to take care of people and that I'm having an impact and taking care of people because it does translate into business performance.

Right? And remember the social pressures that we all feel. Right. Remember the the pandemic pressures that were just coming out of, remember the fatigue that we feel from time to time. Right. Remember just how fast the world is changing. And for some it's exhilarating for others, it's tiring, but w you know, so think about all those things that you're feeling guarantee that it's magnified by everyone in your workforce.

when you've got your compass, Wehrli in front of you, that's saying, you know, point. Look after your people they'll look after the business, then it is a strange. It is a straight line to do that. When you take your eye off, caring for your people then different things happen and you don't get the results that you need, but our people need to feel cared for.

They need energy and they need resilience. Right in this market that we're operating in. And so, it, it becomes a huge part of our job to enable that care for people. And when we can get a system doing that, Then we can get greater workforce outputs and greater productivity.

[00:36:11] Lisa: Yeah, I really appreciate the metaphor of the compass. Right. You know, if that's your. that caring, like that's fundamentally what guides us in all of our decisions and choices. It really starts to help you cause talent management people are caught in the organ at an organizational middle, right?

Like you really are. It helps you stay the course, I think. And not get sucked down the rabbit holes and onto the tangents and the throwing stuff at the wall flavor of the month, traps that can easily trip you up as you're trying to respond to the needs in a timely way. So, so keeping that, that compass in front and top of mind, I think driving consistency over time is really key.

Yeah. 

[00:36:53] Matt: Absolutely. 

[00:36:53] Lisa: you so much, Matt, what a pleasure to have you on and, and to, and to get caught up in here about the amazing work you're doing. And I really, really appreciate your time, your time with us. Yeah.

[00:37:03] Matt: Listen, Lisa, thank you very much. And I really enjoyed it. 

had a blast. Thanks.