The Embedded Internal Coach with Mary Meston

“I’m an island.”
-Mary Meston  (embedded internal Coach)

Do you have a coaching roster in your organization?  Or do you have internal coaches embedded internally?  Perhaps you're listening to this, saying “I only wish I had either one!”  No matter your situation or opinion on the best structure, you will find this conversation thought-provoking.

My guest is Mary Meston. Mary has extensive experience in large-scale organizational growth, talent transformation and change and talent enablement. She has held numerous leadership positions in a wide range of top companies the Fortune 500, successful and several global enterprises.

Mary is VP of Talent Management for Concentrix, a huge organization with almost 500,000 employees.  She leads the Executive Leadership development strategy focused on helping leaders, teams and organizations develop personal leadership skills and strategies for generating growth and sustainable success.  She is also what is known as an “embedded Coach.”

Mary has a Masters in Organizational and Leadership Development from JFK University, a Bachelor’s in Psychology from Marquette University and a wide variety of certifications in Executive Leadership and Talent Development.

In this episode of Talent Management Truths, you’ll discover:

• Insight into the decision to embed a professional coach within an organization vs using only external coaches 
• How coaching can have such a multiplier effect
• Ideas to influence high performance 

Links
Mary Meston on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/marymestonchpc
Facebook: www.facebook.com/mmeston1

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Transcript

LM Ep 103

 [00:00:00] 

Do you have a coaching roster in your organization or do you have internal coaches embedded internally? Perhaps you're listening to this saying, I only wish I had either one. Well, no matter your situation or opinion on the best [00:01:00] structure, you'll find this conversation thought provoking. My guest is Mary Meston.

Mary is vice president of talent management for Concentrix, which is a huge organization with almost 500, 000 employees. She leads the executive leadership development strategy focused on helping leaders, teams, and organizations develop personal leadership skills and strategies. She's also what's known as an embedded coach, an internal coach.

She has a master's in organizational and leadership development from JFK University and a bachelor in psychology. In this episode of talent management truths, you'll discover insight into the decision to embed a professional coach within an organization versus using only external coaches, how coaching can have such a multiplier effect and ideas to influence high performance.

Enjoy.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Hello and welcome back to Talent Management Truths. I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell, and today I'm joined by Mary Meston. Mary [00:02:00] is the Vice President of Global Executive Talent Development at Concentrix. Welcome to the show, Mary.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Thank you, Lisa. Thank you so much for asking me to join you in this lovely day.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: My pleasure. So perhaps you could begin by telling us a little bit about, about your career journey leading up to this role, this interesting role that we'll talk about after as well.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: It's been a short yet long journey. So let's, let's start with always wanted to do something around people. Wanted to do personnel. Yes, I'm dating myself. And actually found my way into it from the very beginning of doing I held every role in HR eventually came out in a number of companies during the dot com era and the dot Boston com era as a VP of HR switched into change management for a number of times doing large transformations for big companies.

And now find myself. taking the best of all of those worlds and have a just a phenomenal [00:03:00] role, personally, I believe, for myself and for others as a embedded coach in in my current company. So, I mean, that's a long yet short journey, but I see it as the capstone

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. And so for listeners, an embedded coach literally means that Mary is an employee of concentrics and she is in place to provide, we're going to talk about this confidential coaching to leaders and help them with, you know, high performance. It's so, so instead of using a coaching roster or, you know, One awesome.

So on. You're, you're there. so, so tell us a little bit about how that is structured,

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Okay. It's interestingly and so when I was sought out about five years ago by the CEO of our company for this role in our series of conversations, the discussion was in or out. He was like, what do you think is best? And we riffed off each other and talked about the pros and cons [00:04:00] and actually agreed on embedment as the way to go just because it's.

I would obviously know the culture, know the inner workings, know the players so I could offer added value. You know, the contrary to that is, but the confidences. So I'm, I'm an island amongst myself. I did, I actually report to no one, but administratively reported through him as well as now legal.

And so that is about. You know, constructing me as an island, so I don't have any vested bias in anyone or any particular function. What that does do is means, you know, you, you are an island. So, you know, you, you, you better be okay being an island.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Yeah. And it's an island in a very big sea because concentric has 350, 000 employees, I think.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: 350, and we've just recently published news that we will be combining with another large player out there in the space. So we will be pushing half a million.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: [00:05:00] Wow. So

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: I know

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: significant. Yeah. So, so even more important though, to have no vested bias, right? To really protect that perception of well, it's not just a perception, but that reality of you are there to serve the person in front of you. So who gets picked? How do you, how does that work?

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: how does it work?

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Who gets to get your services out of, you know, it'd be a small bucket.

I would think you're, there's only one of you and

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Yeah, yes,

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: people.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: it is a fairly small bucket, though. We do have designs and plans on to expand that right now. It is at senior executive level and maybe I'll talk a little bit about the journey here. So, when I brought the program in that 1st year, I actually piloted. piloted it with the top senior directors, which are the SET, which was about a dozen people.

And, and then through that proved the concept and now have expanded it, but it is held to VP, VP level and up senior executives that are considered on the high potential path and are, have [00:06:00] been tagged for significant growth through a lot of talent matrices is who gets on the roster. And they they can choose to participate or not.

And yes, I've had a couple that didn't see the value of coaching yet. I will say successfully a year or so later, they bring me back and go can I reclaim my spot? I hear there's good things happening. So.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Fair enough. So, is there more than one of you or is it just you?

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: it's just me technically right now, though. I have been working with a number of folks to start embedding coaching ideas, coaching philosophy, and hopefully shortly we will have some agreement and success to really expand the program because I think this is one of the challenges in any talent management and particularly in coaching because it is so one on one and intensive.

It limits whom you can get to, you know, And, you know, there's a lot of discussion in the space about why is coaching held so [00:07:00] tightly for just those special people. And, you know, that kind of pulls at my heartstrings.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: yes, it's it's a it's a tricky thing for sure. Because then you have, of course, of course, you know, digital coaching platforms that are kind of popping up everywhere. That's, you know, they're trying to democratize coaching and allow it to be just in time and available to all levels and so on. So I've seen quite a few organizations do that.

I have friends that work on those platforms. and yet there is still this need. It's not a, it's not a bad thing. I, you know, to, to offer this to those high potentials that are likely to be moving into cross functional leadership positions and building that bench, as we say, right, for succession planning.

It's actually a very real need for businesses. I, I, I think it's not an either or it's, it needs to be and ultimately.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: I concur. And I mean, speaking to our industry and particularly to us we do a lot of what we call coaching at the junior level through our brand [00:08:00] advisors and game changers. And so the idea of that working one on one though on select items is not foreign to us. So leveraging that and being able to expand it, be it whatever means.

I do think there's that one on one need and the platform's no ill intention. I think there's a, there's a space for that as well.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we've just been talking about, like, you use the term, you know, coaching being so one on one and intensive, right? So, sometimes it can be hard for people to understand, like, what, what is going on there? Like, in those conversations, what's, what's going on here? And I think maybe actually, you know, It would be interesting to dig into now how coaching, you know, you and I were talking about in the green room can have such a multiplier effect, right?

It's such a powerful form of learning because it is so personal, it's so customized to the person's needs, right? It's, it's a process of helping them discover [00:09:00] what. They really want and need and the resources they can tap into. So it's, it's so different, right? It's teaching people how to fish to use that old proverb versus giving them the fish or giving them the fishing rod.

So you and I were talking about how that's partly what makes it so powerful is, is because people are going through this process and when they have good results. They start showing up differently. They're learning how to be different, not just do different. And that is setting a very powerful example for other people.

So even if some of the folks that report into them or look to them aren't getting the direct coaching, I do think there's a spillover or that ripple in the pond effect. What do you see? Do you have any examples of that?

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Oh, I, I, you see me nodding or if you don't can't see me, I am nodding. Yeah, absolutely. And you see me really agreeing with that concept because I have innumerable examples of there's, I can speak to a particular [00:10:00] gentleman I was coaching and, and still am, and was known to be quite cantankerous.

No one knows whom I'm coaching, you know, we don't publish the roster. So people don't know that. So occasionally people that may work for that person be on my roster. They don't know this, but I will, they, one person actually said, I don't know what is happening with my boss, but something is just happening and this, and this, and this, and it's all for the better and.

What this is what it's doing for our teams. And so I got to see the ripple, you know, in practical in real time. in the coaching, you know, holding that space for people to really identify. It's giving them that someone told me the other day. It's that golden hour where I can hold a space to think about. know, me, my goals, and not only the how, but how can I be that? And we often talk about not only what you do, but how you do it. And you [00:11:00] actually explain some of the methodology we use to help people hold a space so they can do it for others. And I've had a few folks come back to me and they go, I hope you don't mind, but I kind of did what you did with me yesterday with so and so.

So you know, I see it happening,

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Yes, so, so wonderful. I, I I really love, you know, especially since it's, it's coming up fall and you and I were talking about how we love the, the quality of the light, the sort of slant of the sunshine right now. It's that golden space. And here we're talking about the golden hour for clients when they're working with their coach.

I know I look at that way for myself with my own coach. Like this is my time. I get to really look at what's most important and step back because We don't have that time and that focus typically in our day to day. So it's, it's really powerful. But the other thing you said there that I wanted to underscore that is so important is that, you know, you're, you're sharing what the framework is, what the [00:12:00] process is, you're not trying to.

Make it seem like some magical thing. That's just, you know, it's mystical and oh, I feel better and I've got a plan, you know, coming out, you're telling them a little bit about what the process is. And I do that as well, particularly at onboarding so that people understand and I don't want them to be thinking about it consciously in every conversation, but I want them to know that there is an arc that we're moving through to get you to those next best steps so that you will get results.

And I think what's funny, though, is that, you know, by sharing that we're helping people model the way and also be able to do it themselves. This isn't about, you know, job security for us. This is helping people be more effective and impactful long term, more self sufficient.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: absolutely. And, and when my on board, because I particularly follow, you know, I, you know, the three decades in business and all that wealth of experience and also a number of, you know, [00:13:00] learning tools, but I follow what's called high performance. And I do on onboarding, you know, explain to them, you know, the first few sessions are going to be really structured.

You'll see it. And here's why. And here's what we're doing. Yeah, I understand that I'm going to take you on a journey to get a result. And I love it. Thank you. You know, six, 12 sessions later, people will be riffing and it's going so well. And they'll go, is this what it's supposed to be? I didn't mean to talk so much.

And like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. You're golden hour. And if you're not seeing, you know, it's not kludgy and there's not a process, this is working and you're talking and you're finding answers. That's success, right? it's almost like making exercise, not painful.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Oh God, that's so funny because I, I, you know, I relate to that. I joined a gym, you know, about six months ago and, and it's, it's hard. And at first I just felt extra clunky and so on because it was all new, the moves and stuff, you know, it's a dysfunctional workout and now it's, it's, I kind of know what to expect.

So [00:14:00] it's, it's, you know, and I see that with coaching clients too, and I think that's what you're saying, right? Like people sort of. Get into a rhythm of it so that it feels more fluid, more smooth, and they kind of know what to expect. So they're more prepared, typically coming in, which really helps the process and the results that they get.

I want to get into the high performance piece that you mentioned, but there is something just before we move on, you know, back to this, helping people be more self sufficient and learn how to kind of help themselves within the space of coaching, you know, even though we're. Working to help people be more self sufficient and be able to understand their own resourcefulness that are that innate resourcefulness and be able to tap into it more readily.

I think, you know, I think about leaders in corporate and I meet a lot who are sometimes reticent to. You know, do all the mentoring and coaching of, of their staff because they're worried about their own job, about being replaced. And even if they hear somebody say, no, [00:15:00] you need to train your replacement.

That's what it's all about, which I firmly believe it is. It's very hard for some leaders. They might feel a bit threatened and so on. And so it makes me think if I extrapolate that back to coaching though, I. Have been working with a coach and be being a coach for a very long time now. And I still go back to coaching personally, even though I know the things and I help other people learn the things because there's points in your life where it's not so much that you don't know how to do it, but it's easier when you're in the company of somebody who's skilled at asking the questions and can acknowledge, you can encourage, you can pull, tease things out that we can't see ourselves.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Absolutely. I mean, it's that the old saying about forest for the trees, you know, when you're in a forest, you don't see the individual trees and actually, and I'm sure you've experienced this coaching you know, I have worked with brilliant people and they just, you know, in so many ways over overwhelm me and they're in there.

their mental abilities, [00:16:00] yet they'll go, how come I didn't see that? Or, oh my gosh, and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, you know, forest trees, you know, you're in the forest, you can't, and so help them in so many ways, realize that. For some, they think that if they have to continue coaching or want to continue coaching or continue to get value, that it's filling a gap or a miss or a wrong or a need, and it is so not that, you know, coaching is about plentiful and abundance and self resourcefulness and growth and development.

It's not about remedial and gap and whole and wrong at all. Yeah.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: because yes, we already see clients as whole

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Yes.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: and not, not something to be fixed. They're not broken, right? So yeah, I, I, I like that reminder, help them see that it's not just about feeling, filling a gap. It's also about high [00:17:00] performance, higher performance, elevating. Maybe we can dig into that. Like what's your definition of high, high performance and what does that mean in the context of the work you do?

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: You know, high performance. And again, I get to work with a select group that are high achievers innately, right? So it's like, what more can they do? High performance is achieving your best or your human optimum. As much of the time and enjoying it along the way. So it's a personal and professional experience together.

And, you know, I had the fortune of being trained and working with Brendan Bouchard, who does have a number of lovely books out there. High performance habits is one of the major ones that I am certified through, through that organization. So I do leverage a lot of that. And the concept is that. You know, you're playing to that abundance and yet what can you do for high achievers and we focus on about five different aspects and I'll give them what, you know, I'll share them just because they're actually, you know, they're [00:18:00] published it's influence, courage, productivity, oh my gosh, oh, can you believe this?

I'm forgetting them. Oh my goodness. Clarity. I'm not very clear right now. Am I? And necessity, Clarity. And conceptually, it's, I don't necessarily help people do more. I help them do what is the right thing or the best thing or even do less. You know, an easy, an easy one to understand is productivity. Most everybody goes, Oh, I have so much to do.

And you know, I'm working 60 hours a week. And a lot of it is talking about, it's not about more. Yeah. And that is like a showstopper for some of them because they think you know, the next wrong up is now an 80 hour week.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Well, this is, this is where, you know, some people that get assigned a coach, you know, they're part of a cohort and there's, they get coaching and they're kind of like, I don't have, like, I can't fit in one more thing. Right. It can feel very, very [00:19:00] hard. And so often I find with, with folks like that.

You know, the biggest, most mind blowing question is what do you want to let go of, or what are you tolerating that needs to come off the plate and, you know, don't worry about what you're going to do about it yet. Just identify. We're just identifying and taking the pressure off to have to action. Just it opens things up for people to go and me included because I try to ask myself that question regularly.

Like what. Okay, it's not just about what am I trying to add in, because I want to add in all the things, because I'm curious about it all, but what needs to come off to create capacity? For what's most important right now.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Absolutely. You know, it's, you think about those old priority grids as well as, you know, delegation. And there's just so many avenues you can go with this, but in opening it up to, I call it my magic wand question. I go magic [00:20:00] wand, there's no limits and you're not going to have to do it. What could be, what if?

And it's amazing of like what will come off the plate and just get freeing up that how, because I knew particularly in business, and particularly coaching in a business environment, we live on our next how our next do

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Yes.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: we don't necessarily get the luxury of being, though we are being that makes weird sense but we are being, and we're doing, but how do we relieve them.

Absolutely.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: And you know what's so sad is I wish I'd known this stuff much, much earlier.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Tell me about it.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Oh my God, it would have made things a whole lot easier for sure, right? Having a better understanding of this. This is what I think this is such an important conversation, you know, to help people understand, you know, really what, what coaching can do.

So, okay. We're, we're. Touching on all sorts of [00:21:00] interesting stuff. Let's come back to your role, particularly as an embedded coach. And well, I mean, it, it, it will pertain to, to people listening that hire coaches for their roster. It will pertain to coaches listening, who, who offer their services into different companies and so on, but, you know, tracking ROI. Is such it's such a monster for a lot of people, I learned early on not to be scared of that, right? Because it's all about getting clear measurements, but because, you know, these are more self perceived measurements, typically in coaching, right? Like, I will feel more confident. You know, move on a scale from

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Right.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: seven out of ten and six months.

I wasn't more confident in executive meetings or something like that. Like, you know. I'm very comfortable with that and being able to speak to that. And there are stats you can find different scholarly articles that show it's actually an incredible ROI of the impact of coaching on [00:22:00] productivity and retention and employee engagement and so on.

How do you do it in your role?

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Okay. Yeah. Very mathematically. No, I'm totally joking. So a, a, a couple of, well, I would say there's probably three different aspects or things that I can leverage. And mind you, for anybody there that wants to be an embedded coach, there was a huge sales process or com. I use my best influence skills from high performance to help.

The leaders and that first pilot group to see the value of it in in three sources are the anecdotal stories. So I do pull folks every 6 months or so to have them share what they're willing to share about, you know, what choices might you have made or decisions you've done that you wouldn't have before.

Obviously, there's a lot of confidentiality there. So I anecdotally compile that and I do roll it up to the C. E. O. On a quarterly, annual basis, depending just so he can see some some movements, right? The other is that [00:23:00] this, these, the clients now work really diligently to get the people that work with them on my roster.

So now there is some internal competition about, you know, how do, how do we move up on that roster, right? The playing list. So that I think is a really good anecdotal data point. And, and then the, the other is actually my CEO actually, unbeknownst to me and anyone that works with me, because he does have the roster.

He will just, Talk to people, just unplan, find out how it's working for them, and if it's working for them, then they'll like it, and I know via various sources that people have shared, if it wasn't for, and then he gives them the response, and so that has made a one year pilot become a five year journey.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Well, congratulations on that. Because I, I, I think you know, with somebody else in there, it may not have worked out [00:24:00] that way. So clearly you've, you've influenced the influencers and, and been able to, to sustain something that's really having a significant impact on the organization. So that's actually something that you mentioned to me earlier, you know, in such a mass organization,

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: It is

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: you know, how do you influence the influencers?

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: very carefully and I am I actually, when I think about influencing influencers, I really leverage a lot of my history in that my master's I wrote about credibility and professionalism, and very much, it basically came down to doing what you say. Being, you know, resilient, trustful and be present and be authentic, right?

So in my being, and there's actually an influence matrix I use with folks are actually a triangle and you influence people by who you're being is and you're being your authenticity. And we spent a lot of time on that in the coaching as well as you're doing those actions. That's what everyone kind of looks to, [00:25:00] you know, they made that decision, they made that move, whatever.

And then the third is how you connect with others. In their, their heart or their emotions. Right. So how do I influence influencers? I use all those all three aspects. You know, I bring my true authentic. I will tell you how it is self. You know, I, I won't reach confidences, but I'm not gonna, you know, blow smoke.

Here's what I'm doing. And here are the emotions and the values that you can get to and from it and it works. So the model of influence I leverage actually is working because I'm influencing the influencers to influence influencers. Okay. That was a mouthful.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Yes, it was. I think I follow. So, you know, have you ever had, you know, the proverbial tough cookie? Yeah, either where you are now or elsewhere, like where, you know, like where you had to go kind of the extra mile to, to, to demonstrate. Can [00:26:00] you walk us through that?

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Yeah, I, and you, and I'm, and I'm laughing because, I mean, as much as we don't want that tough cookie, I think all of us know if you can turn that tough cookie, you've got a champion

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: The biggest fan

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: right? And you got the biggest fan and in fact that, you know, change management, that's a key thing. Go get the naysayers first.

Right? Particular tough cookie. And I'll keep, keep it fairly general just 'cause, the particular client basically said, I don't know why I'm meeting with you, but I was told I should, and everybody else is so, so what, right. And a number of the conversations were really much about just kind of, educational struggles, intelligent struggles.

They were trying to prove me wrong, prove them wiser. And, and through that, I just started leveraging really active listening and realizing what were motivators for them. So drawing some metaphors and also some lines to things they hadn't put together yet. So they got a couple [00:27:00] ahas, right? And it wasn't an aha to see, see I showed you, but aha, oh wow.

And then they started to open up to the fact that, you know, having someone else that was going toe to toe with them could actually help them see connections they hadn't seen and a new new epiphanies. So while they may not at this point in time still be like, you know, gleefully wanting to do this, they continue because they see they're going to come out with something they hadn't before.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Cause it's magical, right? Even for, you know, the coaches, right? That is the thing I love the most when working with my own coaches is, you know, you said it helps me see connections I hadn't seen yet.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Yes. And again, it's that forest trees. I didn't see active listening. You know, I too, you know, and you mentioned it. In our coaching sessions, I walk [00:28:00] away with some personal epiphanies for myself, And, and so it's a value add for everyone. And, and yet so I stick to it and with the tough cookies, it'd be easier to walk away.

But my challenge is to really help them because I know what's available to them.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Well, it sounds like with that example that you shared and thank you for sharing that, you know, where he or she was trying to kind of prove, prove you wrong or that there. You know, what I heard you say was that you really employed active listening and, and when you do that, the person's going to feel seen and heard.

That is a very, sometimes uncomfortable, but powerful feeling. And it sounds like that was what gave them pause so that they could open up and actually start seeing, you know, being, being open to the questions you were asking and help them see those connections and draw that line.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Yeah, and I think for them, I'm projecting here, but I'm also making a deduction. In [00:29:00] that They, I don't know that they ever allowed the time or found anyone that could actively see and hear them because they have had an embattled presence with others. So everyone was on a defense. So they weren't. Going to provide that space and and that it magically opened up for them.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Wild, right? And just imagine what that person was able to go on and do, right? How they could change their impact and effectiveness if they're not pushing people away with that same presence all the time.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Absolutely. Absolutely. They, they, they then got a little bit of a, an awareness that they were pushing people away and that whole axiom of why aren't people doing what I want them to do? Well, you know, there's, there's the push and there's the pull, right?

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Yeah.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: inspire or command which works better.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Yeah, it's exactly right. That's, that's the question. Well, thank you so much, Mary. We're [00:30:00] coming to the end of our, of our time together. So sad. We could keep going. But let, you know, I do have one more question just to ask before we wrap up. Just, you know, when you think about, you've had a really Wonderful career.

And, and, you know, as you said, this, this piece that you're doing now as an embedded coach is kind of pulling all of the goodness from the change management and the VPHR and all the different things you've done together. What would you say this might be a tricky question has been the biggest lesson for you over your years in the field.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Oh my goodness. Biggest lesson. What comes to mind right now is you're never going to know it all or do it all. Have faith in yourself. It's a journey and it, it's a journey of persistence and faith and authenticity. You know, I kept thinking repeatedly in my career that, oh, when I get to, oh, when I get to, oh, when I get to, and I hear that repeatedly with all my clients that it's a journey. [00:31:00] Yeah. It's not a result. Yeah.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Not being so married to the, to the result, focus more on what you're doing on the way there. I know for, for me, you know, that's, that's an ongoing piece of work to keep doing that because really, you know, when you're only focused on outcomes and speed you're not always getting what you want and that's, that's a harsh reality.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Well, absolutely. You know, and it's a little different in, and in business, that viewpoint is not lauded because you're paid for results. You win by results. Results get shareholders. Yeah. It really is that journey. And it, so it's it's great when you can balance the two.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Yeah. on doing the work. The results will come and trusting that beautiful. Well, thank you so much for giving us this peek behind the curtain into

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: you're welcome.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: the world of, you know, coaching, certainly, but also coaching within an organization and the impact that you've been able [00:32:00] to have over the last five years.

It's really really amazing. I appreciate your generosity. Yes.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Well, I appreciate the opportunity to share that and true to form this actually helped me to start really reflecting on what how would an awesome journey that has been and is and will continue to be. So thank you.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate1: Oh, you're welcome. I'm so glad. Well, thank you very much, Mary. I hope you have a great rest of the day.

Mary Meston GMT20230919-151458_Recording_separate2: Thank you. Same to you.