Thriving as an Introvert in L&D with Louise Kyprianou

“Well, I am who I am. Introverted or extroverted, I'm going to make it work for me."
-Louise Kyprianou

Are you more extroverted or introverted?   What about the people who surround you at work?   In the People/HR and L&D space, extroverts tend to outnumber the introverts in my experience.  So how can they thrive equally?   Listen in to today’s guest explain how she makes it work as an introvert in our space.

My guest is Louise Kyprianou. Louise is Director of Training and Leadership Development for Operations at Pomerlau.   She is a dynamic L&D professional with a Bachelor of Human Resource Management (BHRM) from York University. With over 15 years of experience across a variety of industries she is equipped with exceptional relational skills enabling her to deeply understand business and operational needs.

Louise is a true connector, passionate about fostering growth and learning. She excels in creating engaging and inclusive learning environments that drive organizational success. As a continuous learner herself, she has pursued further education in Adult Education and recently earned her ACC certification through the International Coaching Federation (ICF).

Louise’s enthusiasm, curiosity, and commitment to excellence help her spark creative learning opportunities for employee growth and development. Her expertise has led her to manage complex projects from analysis through to implementation. 

In this episode of Talent Management Truths, you’ll discover:

• Tips for navigating being more behind the scenes in a Centre of Excellence model (especially if this is a new shift for you!)
• The link between customer service and employee experience
• How to make being an introvert work for you on the L&D space

Links

• Louise Kyprianou on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louise-kyprianou-73ab7ba/ 

Looking for a Team Coach or dynamic Keynote Speaker/Facilitator?

Book a call with me to explore how we might partner (serious inquiries only please):

https://calendly.com/lisa-mitchell-greenapple/clarity-call

Share the Show

Like what you’ve heard? Pretty please with an apple on top - kindly leave me a 5* review so that others can find the show and elevate their impact too! Here are the simple instructions:

• Launch Apple's Podcast app on your iPhone or iPad.
• Tap the Search icon (on the botton) and search for the show name.
• Tap the show's cover art.
• On the podcast page, tap the Reviews tab.
• Tap "Write a Review" at the bottom of this page.

Follow me

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-mitchell-acc-ctdp-7437636/

Instagram: @greenappleconsulting

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/greenappleconsulting.ca

Transcript

Are you more extroverted or introverted? What about the people who surround you at work? In the people HR and L and D space? Extroverts tend to outnumber the introverts in my experience. So how can they thrive equally? Listen in to today's guest, explain how she makes it work as an introvert in our space.

My guest is Louise Kinu. Louise is Director of Training and Leadership Development for operations at Palmer Lo. She's a dynamic l and d professional with a Bachelor of Human Resource Management, and she's got many years of experience across a variety of industries. As a continuous learner herself, she's pursued further education in adult education and recently earned her a CC certification through the International Coaching Federation.

I. In this episode of Talent Management Truths, you'll discover tips for navigating being more behind the scenes in a center of excellence model, especially if this is a new shift for you. The link between customer service and employee experience and how to make being an introvert work for you in the l and d space.

Enjoy the episode. 

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: Hello and welcome back to Talent Management Truth. I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell, and today I'm joined by Louise Kinu. Louise is the director of training and leadership development for operations at Palmer Lo Great to have you on the show, Louise.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: Thanks so much, Lisa. It's great to be here.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: So let's kick off and, and have you share with me and our listeners who you are. And how did you get here? What was your career journey like?

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: Oh, wonderful. And thanks again, Lisa. It's an interesting journey that it has been. I think I knew graduating from high school, HR was the place that I wanted to be, but not quite sure where within hr. So it was a really unique opportunity to attend York University. I. At a time when the HR program was brand new, so I was one of the first graduates of that bachelor degree program.

So it gave me a lot of exposure to work with some industry professionals and to understand that HR is in every industry, which sparked that interest for me to think, huh, where might I like to be? I. Where would I like to be in the future and what types of things would I like to be doing? So it was a great, fantastic opportunity and experience as well. And I quickly stepped into an HR role right after graduation, working with Career Edge. So that led me to a boutique recruitment firm, and I had this great exposure to work with two industry professionals that really knew what they were doing, and were very open to mentor and support me and also to give me some opportunity to try things out.

So to gain that experience and exposure I was really looking for in my first job. And from there I was able to work both in private and public sectors with a variety of different organizations. So I've landed myself here at Palmer Low, where I've been for the past three and a half years now, working specifically in training and development.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: Beautiful. So it's interesting because I need to check the stats. I should actually go back through the over a hundred people that I've interviewed for this show. But I, I, I, I would say that more often than not, people say I fell into hr. I. It happened to me versus the other way around.

And, and I used to think maybe it was more 50 50, but I do think that there's more of, of folks like that, like myself, that that's how it worked out for me. So I really appreciate that you knew early on what, how, what helped with that knowing? What was it that pulled you?

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: For me, it was a passion for people, so wanting to work and interact with others, having a lot of possibility and potential as well. As I mentioned, you know, I could work in construction, I could work in finance, or I could do something completely different. So I saw that as a really transferable skill to have, to be able to work in an industry.

That kind of peaked curiosity, peaked interest, and also to could, could lead me to some other paths as well.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: Yeah. 'cause I think, I think part of what's hap, like when I was coming up through school, I just don't think. HR was on the radar so much. It was called personnel, and it was more sort of a staffing function. It wasn't understood, you know, it wasn't as strategic as it is today. I mean, it's definitely evolved.

I often think my, my son who's heading off to university, as we were talking about off air he's heading next week. I actually think he could probably really thrive in the area. But of course now with social media, you get sort of. I don't know. Unfortunately, it's done a disservice for HR that in the office, right?

Like that, that, that, that they're not necessarily the, the sharpest tools in the shed or whatever. I don't know if you've ever run into that in your career where people sort of have a preconceived notion of HR and it's not positive.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: I think I, I have and experienced that myself where we were just assumed to be the ones

that also led the social committee, and we're here to

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: yes. The party planners. Yeah.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: And that sort of thing. So definitely over the progress that I've made in my career, I'm starting to see it as a more strategic function within the business.

They're now coming to us asking for that help and support where that wasn't always the case when I started off in my career.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: Well, I would wager that that's also because of how you show up, right? And how you've created those relationships. And actually, let's talk a bit about that. So, so at Palmer Low, you know, what's your team look like and, and what are sort of the key projects that you work on to support the business?

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: Yeah, of course. So I truly have an amazing and talented and very diverse team. We work in a bilingual environment and we all work in different offices. So it's a really unique opportunity to kind of bring that hybrid work culture and that virtual work culture to life.

So in that being said we recently changed to a center of excellence or center of expertise model within training and development. So we now work very much behind the scenes, creating an understanding what the needs of the business are. And doing some great programs, some great facilitation, some great e-learning to help bring all of that learning to life so that people are able to meet the developmental needs that they have within the business to grow and to be able to do their jobs well.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: So that's a recent shift. How was it set up before?

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: I. Yeah, so we were much more on the front line. So we had a lot of interaction with the staff day to day, and we're doing a lot of one-on-one support. So as our business is continuing to grow and expand, there's been that need for us to be even more strategic. So not just helping one manager, but creating tools to help all of our managers.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: Yeah, it's an interesting evolution and I appreciate you being willing to share a bit because the, you know, where my curiosity is being tapped here a little bit is. I think it's the COE model's, very, very common and, and makes good sense, especially as organizations grow. And something that I see have being more of a, an l and d person than HR operations, although I've done both is that.

For some learning and development, you know, od COEs, they find it very tricky to actually really understand needs when it's coming secondhand through HR business partners or whatever. So I'm just wondering how that shows up for you and, and, and ideas you have to, to navigate that potential problem.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: Yes, absolutely. So I think first and foremost, just having strong relationships with that HRBP team. So regular communication and touch points with each of those individuals in the offices is critically important. And I always encourage the team, one of our goals this year is to spend more time on our projects. So go and shadow for a day, see what a superintendent does. Ask the project manager what are their biggest challenges. Being able to see those things in a trailer or on a project site, that learning is invaluable and that really keeps us close to the business to understand what's the pulse of our organization, what are some of the challenges we're experiencing, and how can we help to support that through learning and through development programs.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: Yes. So this makes me think of when you and I first met and something that I really, that really resonated for me was around. You learning that the, you know, what's most important when it comes to customer service and employee experience, would you, would you elaborate a little bit for us, your, your philosophy around that?

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: Yeah, absolutely. A really important thing that comes to mind is understanding more about who the audience. That we're designing and developing these learning journeys for. So knowing that our staff, you know, may not always be sitting at a desk with a computer is important when we're creating and curating content for them.

So it really needs to speak to the learner and really engage and capture the learner's interest as well.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: Yeah, so, you know, with the, the, the whole piece around customer service, so you've got your. You're, you know, the people you're designing, learning for certainly, but then the internal partners and customers. And I'm just wondering how does that needs conversation take place? Like certainly you're doing some shadowing, you're having, you're creating great relationships with HR bps, but what kind of structures or tools that do you kind of leverage with your team for that?

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: Hmm. We have regular cadence meetings, so we're

really able to sit and partner with, again, that HR team itself. So understanding what they're hearing from operations, looking at some of the data and the reporting that we have to say, okay, well what's talent acquisition bringing in the front door? You know, what are the needs there for all of the new hires that we have?

And for those that are looking to continually grow and develop, what is the need that they do have? We also look a lot at our exit interview data and our engagement surveys to better understand, you know, what's gonna have the greatest impact for the teams and the people that we support.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: Yeah, all. Now you're making me think of when I first went through my adult education diploma many, many, many years ago. Many moons with St. Francis Xavier, and you know, we, we, we spent like a full week just on needs. And talked about things like environmental scans and data scans, and so it's really being you know, very thorough and, and leveraging all of the, the data and the people who have insight around a particular project or a need.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: And Lisa, you just sparked something for me. I think often in the industry that we're in, we're very much focused on fixing the problem. So,

oh, this is, oh, here's what we gotta do, here's how we're gonna fix it. And I always encourage our team to spend a little bit more time. Fully understanding, like what's the root cause of this request?

Is it a technology issue? Is it a soft skills or you know, a power skills issue that we're dealing with? Or is it just poor management? So this is really one of those opportunities for us to take a step back, reflect for a moment, and understand, you know, what's the actual underlying cause of this challenge that we're experiencing. Rather than just saying, oh, training's absolutely the answer. Let's get this person in a program.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: Yes. You know, it's, I am really delighted you brought that up because I think we're singing from the same song sheet because, you know, I, I, I think it's common in some cases with. L and d you know, to, to wanna solve the problem, right? To be of service and to be able to address something really, you know, expeditiously kind of thing, right?

And make things happen. And, and when I see some, some teams, some well-meaning people super smart, move into that mode. They do miss. Actually figuring out, you know, am I actually solving for something or just, you know, slapping a bandaid is not actually gonna have long-term impact, or it's gonna make things worse and and more confusing.

And you know, when I think about root cause and how important that I. Is for problem solving and for learning, really getting to the, the crux of the matter, if you will. I think the thing that helped me most was being a technical trainer way, way back, right? Sitting beside somebody doing a complex process with multiple applications, open and paper, and all sorts of stuff, and, and watching them do it and writing it all down, and then.

From there, filtering through like, okay, why does this happen? Why do you do that? Like, you know, we're trying to get productivity up, but they're flipping between the same screen multiple times and what's up with that? Well, the one screen doesn't have everything they need, and that's the root cause. It wasn't the performance issue, you know, this kind of thing.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: Mm-Hmm.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. So, okay, let's, let's talk a little bit about something you had brought up last time too was this idea that you, you know, you have this experience working for a really small recruitment boutique kind of operation, and now you're in this larger organizations sort of heavier volume.

And what have you noticed and learned as a result of that contrast?

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: I think a lot of great lessons that have been learned. Learned along the way. One, I always go back to that like, you know, ability to develop great relationships. So whether it's working in an organization where there's just five people, or working in an organization with 5,000 employees, it's a different setting.

Those relationships still need to exist. So knowing who you need to be connected with, who has the information you might be looking for, and also on the flip side, being willing to offer and share information as well. So being able to have that sort of reciprocal relationship I think is important there.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: Very good point. Very good point. Yeah, so it, it's interesting 'cause relationship seems to be a thread that keeps coming up here with you. I would think that's probably one of your superpowers. So, you know, something you'd also shared with me on a personal level is that you are more of an introvert I'm an extrovert. 

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: mm-Hmm. 

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: And so, and you know, I would say that we're a pain in the butt oftentimes, right? 'cause we can monopolize the conversation, you know, in meetings and so on. And there's just sort of like a, a natural desire to speak and take up airtime. How there's a lot of us in l and d and hr.

That's the other thing. There's a lot that really seems to attract a lot of that type. So, as an introvert, how, how have you learned to make HR and, and this l and d space work for you?

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: I think the best advice I got was from an introverted leader that I had in the past who said, lean into being an introvert. We don't, you don't have to be an extrovert. That's not the, the golden ticket, or you don't get an A for being an extrovert and a b for being an introvert.

So really being able to sort of own that and have that, you know, not self-actualization, but that moment of reflection to say, well, I am who I am, introverted or extroverted, I'm gonna make it work for me.

So what do I need to do to make that work for me was sort of the, the tipping point for me. So I think finding allies is critically important. So who is my extroverted counterpart, for example, that can help to advocate or speak in those moments when I may not be feeling as comfortable to do that and giving people that awareness as well.

So as I have a new manager, or whenever I do have that opportunity to work with someone new, I'll mention that and let them be aware of that. So I'll often say, Hey, I might be the one who's a bit quieter in a meeting. I'm listening. I'm just processing information a little bit differently. So being comfortable sharing that I think is important. Finding those allies that can help to voice some of the challenges or experiences you're having, I think is great too. And I also think that having a good sponsor is important. So as an introvert, having a sponsor who's talking about you when you're not in the room or suggesting, Hey, I think Louise might be the person you need to go to, is critically important.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: that's completely true. And, and I feel like for some listeners, you know, they might be going, oh, that's great if you have a sponsor or an advocate like that ahead of you, and not everybody does. So I, again, I just wanna recap what Louise has shared for listeners is, you know, finding allies right?

Working with your extroverted counterparts. Right. To, to compliment what you bring in. You know, another way thing that you can do too is I, I've worked with many introverts, is, is, ask the extrovert, Hey, would you help create space for me to speak up? Right. If, if I'm being very quiet. 'cause often the, it, it's, it's just that it's too hard to break in to the conversation, right?

For somebody who's, you know, that thoughtful processor of information. You also shared about this idea of letting people know, which I think is kind of a, it's simple and it's also vulnerable. how did you come to know how to do that?

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: I think it came with experience. So you know, doing it once is really uncomfortable. As you start to develop that muscle a little bit more, it becomes a bit easier to do that. So being open to that vulnerability and sort of that, that sense of humility a little bit to say, you know, this is the way I am. I want people to know I'm feeling comfortable, and I feel as if though there's psychological safety to be able to share in that space has really helped. And then also having a couple of great leaders that were also introverts, I think help, you know, show that this is a possibility. There's potential here, there's an opportunity for me to grow and to continue to lead.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: So the person that that told you to just lean into being an introvert, were they an introvert as well? 

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: They were 

Yes. 

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: So they need by experience. Yeah. There's a great book if for introverts listening who, if you don't know it, I think it's called Quiet by Susan Kane. Does that ring a bell for you? And it's, yeah.

Yeah. And I, I have not read it, but Ive heard about it from certain clients that it's because I was looking up resources for some coaching clients that. Struggled a little bit, right? And, and that book is, is well regarded, so that might be a good resource for people. It sounds like you've got it nailed down though, so I'm not too worried there.

So, okay, let's switch gears a little bit. Something that you had mentioned to me that you're really proud of that you've been working on at Palmer Lo is creating a learning ecosystem. And I was hoping you could shed a little bit of light on what that's all about.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: For sure. That's something we pride at Polo is one of Canada's top 100 employers. So the learning ecosystem was developed probably five, six years ago, and it was an opportunity to really bring together an ecosystem of initiatives that are dedicated to developing our talent in really unique ways. So not just putting people in a classroom or giving them an e-learning or a manual to read, but really helping to bring that learning to life. So it's very much supported by the strength of our culture. So we're a family started business and we still see a lot of those threads throughout our business today. And also that impact of our leadership. So we ask our senior leaders actually don't even need to ask. I think they demonstrate that ability to, you know, be focused on learning and to put attention there as well.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: so this, this ecosystem that you said it was developed is, was this a strategy to create this? Is that what we're talking about?

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: So a strategy was developed to help us grow exponentially within our business. So we've grown significantly over the past couple of years, and we'll continue to need to grow. In order to do that, we need those great people in the right positions, in the right roles to help make that happen. So we've continued to develop our leadership programs, our technical training, our.

Self-directed learning, as well as our accelerator programs to make that happen. So all of those elements are now involved and included as part of our PX cube ecosystem.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: Ah, okay. So you've got, you, you mentioned a few different components there, so let's, let's break it down for listeners just to give them an idea of the range. 'cause it sounds like it, you know, you were saying it goes beyond classroom learning, e-learning, that kind of thing. So what, what sort of, you know, are you most proud of what's most innovative that's had the most impact?

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: I think a lot of our cohort based learning, so

physically done in person or in virtual hybrid delivery modes are one of our key differentiators within our industry and within our business.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: so face-to-face or hybrid. 

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: Mm-Hmm. 

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: so, so when you say cohort learning, what makes it special? Because that's sort of the idea of having, you know, different groups go through one after the other, through the same program. What's, what sort of distinguishes it here?

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: Yeah. I think the way that we create it as an experiential learning experience is

really important. We also bring together people from different regions. So within a cohort, I may have a project manager from Nova Scotia, a project manager from bc and then a couple that have, you know, been doing this for quite some time in Quebec. So not only are they learning new content, they're also learning from each other. They're creating social learning, they're creating mentorship opportunities, and they're learning from experts, not just within the business, but also those external vendors that we've brought in to facilitate that learning.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: Yeah, so it's really about the mix, isn't it? It's a soup with all sorts of goodness that you put in, right? So that it's not kind of a a flat unidimensional kind of experience.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: Got it. And Lisa, the programs too are designed, especially on the leadership development path to really speak to different types of learners. So within our business and our industry, we have some really tactile, kinesthetic, hands-on learners. We have some that are a bit more, just show me what to do and I got it.

And there's

others that really need to talk it out loud. So we really adapt the content of our programs to that cohort specifically. So we'll do that utilizing a couple of different, you know, assessments, interview meetings, some coaching opportunities to get to know that cohort as they're coming in to meet their needs specifically, and then also to be able to continue to support them once they leave that classroom.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: And how long is your, your typical cohort program? Like are, is there more, is there more than one or?

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: we do have several. So again, to meet the different types of leaders that we have within our business. So a program or cohort will generally start in the fall and then wrap up and finish in the spring.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: Oh, okay. So it's kind of like on a university schedule almost then takes summers off. Okay. Okay. So, so fairly long, fairly involved. And is there a selection process involved of some sort? Like how do people kind of get identified.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: Yes, there's actually a nomination process that takes place. So in the spring, in May we will reach out to the senior leaders within our business to let them know that the nominations are now open for programs.

From there, individuals will be nominated. Those are actually reviewed by our executive committee, and we'll make a decision on what the mix of the next cohorts will be. So we'll take into consideration, you know, all of the different individuals from different locations different years of experience some other factors as well.

And that'll be what creates that cohort for us.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: Okay. It sounds, it sounds kind of similar to Well, a couple different programs that I ran at Chartwell in my last corporate gig. Yeah. With the selection process and, and involving the senior leaders and really making sure that we had a, a, a good mix right. That that was really going to work together and create that cross collaboration and perspective.

I.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: You got it.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: I love it. I love it. Well, we are nearing the end of our time together, so I'd love to, ask you one more question, which is, you know, when you think about some, you know, being somebody who chose HR out of school, right? Like that was, you knew coming outta high school, that was what you wanted to pursue.

What's been the biggest shift you've observed in the industry, in the, in the discipline over your career?

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: I think the biggest shift that I've noticed, and again, I've worked predominantly in recruitment and then within the l and d space as well, is. The presence of HR within a business. So it's moved from being sort of transactional, like hire me someone, terminate someone, get me this letter, sign up for this training, to now actually having a seat at the table where we're contributing to the strategic vision of the organization.

So truly being seen as a partner in the business rather than being seen as, you know, the team that just we send stuff to and they take care of it behind the scenes.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: And what do you attribute that shift to more globally speaking? I.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: That's a good question. I think the evolution of talent. So as we start to see employees that are more engaged and wanting to grow, wanting to have a future, and as we take a look at the, the struggle to find talent within our industries nowadays, it's more important to pay attention to those people. I.

Making sure that they have great career experiences and really nice opportunities within the businesses they work for. So I think that's sort of, you know, at a business level or at an organizational level, that light has gone off to say, huh, okay, we need to focus on our people a little bit differently than we maybe have in the past. People aren't just a number. They're not just here to do a job. They're part of the success of our business and part of the success of our growth. So we need to pay a little bit more attention to that.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: Yes. They're not just widget makers and I think it's the, you know, you know, the, the, it's the knowledge worker kind of thing. I mean, that's been around for, for, you know. 30, 40 years. But, but it's, there's been an increasing self-awareness in, in kind of the global consciousness too, in a lot of ways. Like when it comes to world of work, right?

And understanding what people want and need and demand in order to run a successful business. Yeah, that's, it's, it's interesting. I don't, I don't know the answer myself either. I've got some ideas, so I appreciate you kind of rolling, rolling with my question. So listeners, I invite you to do the same.

Well, that brings us to the end and I really wanna. Thank you so much for taking some time out of your busy day and, and to share a bit of a behind the scenes peek at some of the things you've been doing at Palmer Lo.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate2: Fantastic. Thanks again so much for the invitation, Lisa. It was a, a great pleasure to chat with you and I can't believe the time passed so quickly.

Louise Kyyprianou GMT20240822-190752_Recording_separate1: I know, I know Wise. Thanks again, Elise. I.